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Old 07-31-2009, 11:20 AM   #501
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As someone who supports the bridge and loves the design, I disagree with this. Architecture, as I'm sure you agree, is a form of art, and one does not need to be a talented artist to be an art critic. Obviously some people have a more refined taste in art and design than others* and are thus more capable of evaluating the artistic merits of a particular piece, but that doesn't mean that one needs to be an expert to offer an opinion.
No, one does not need to be an expert to critique art.

But a design expert should be the one to come up with a design - we entrust professionals everyday to do the right thing, and Calatrava is both a professional and an expert on design. There is a reason why he designed it the way he did, why it looks that particularly way, how it relates to Calgary, etc. I think some people are disregarding this because they don't see the bridge topped with a cowboy hat and lined with spurs, all at the lowest possible price.

Unfortunately,you can't appease everyone when it comes to art; such is the nature of life.

I only hope that Calgarians can see past the initial price tag and the unorthodox design and recognize the bridge's long term benefits, both as a general infrastructure upgrade and as hopefully the tip of the iceberg for modern, big city design.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:24 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame View Post
No, one does not need to be an expert to critique art.

But a design expert should be the one to come up with a design - we entrust professionals everyday to do the right thing, and Calatrava is both a professional and an expert on design. There is a reason why he designed it the way he did, why it looks that particularly way, how it relates to Calgary, etc. I think some people are disregarding this because they don't see the bridge topped with a cowboy hat and lined with spurs, all at the lowest possible price.

Unfortunately,you can't appease everyone when it comes to art; such is the nature of life.

I only hope that Calgarians can see past the initial price tag and the unorthodox design and recognize the bridge's long term benefits.
That's just it, maybe the initial price tag is enough for some to swallow, but what is the real price tag going to come in at? I'm willing to bet donated money to CP that there's no way in hell this thing ends up costing less than $30 Million once complete.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:25 AM   #503
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I question why we needed another pedestrian only bridge. Another Auto commuter into downtown with pedestrain access on the side would have been more well received - no?
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:28 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame View Post
No, one does not need to be an expert to critique art.

But a design expert should be the one to come up with a design - we entrust professionals everyday to do the right thing, and Calatrava is both a professional and an expert on design. There is a reason why he designed it the way he did, why it looks that particularly way, how it relates to Calgary, etc. I think some people are disregarding this because they don't see the bridge topped with a cowboy hat and lined with spurs, all at the lowest possible price.

Unfortunately,you can't appease everyone when it comes to art; such is the nature of life.

I only hope that Calgarians can see past the initial price tag and the unorthodox design and recognize the bridge's long term benefits, both as a general infrastructure upgrade and as hopefully the tip of the iceberg for modern, big city design.
I don't disagree with any of this.

Once again, I love the design and completely support the bridge project and hope our city will build more things like this. I just don't think it's fair to say that one must be an expert in a given field to critique the work of others in that field, which is what Table 5 was suggesting in his earlier post.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:31 AM   #505
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I have no idea what you do for work, but Im going to guess it's not what I do. How would you feel if i came over to your desk and started booing and heckling (this reminds me of Seinfeld now) what you do without knowing anything about your occupation? Wouldn't you want to tell me to fata off and mind my own business because I don't know what I'm talking about?

Jerry: Well, I don't know how you're gonna make it in this business if you can't take it! Ya gotta be tough! Booo! Boooo!

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Old 07-31-2009, 11:32 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by MarchHare View Post
As someone who supports the bridge and loves the design, I disagree with this. Architecture, as I'm sure you agree, is a form of art, and one does not need to be a talented artist to be an art critic. Obviously some people have a more refined taste in art and design than others* and are thus more capable of evaluating the artistic merits of a particular piece, but that doesn't mean that one needs to be an expert to offer an opinion.
Let me reiterate that I am absolutely for people giving their opinions about architecture. It's a public piece of work and therefore deserves public discourse. I have absolutely no problem with somebody disliking a design for aesthetical or financial reasons.

What I am against is all the typical "my kid could've done that!" or the "let's give it to a high school student to design" crap that you hear when something like this comes up. Belittling a field of study that people have no real understanding of is what I get angry about.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:33 AM   #507
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I just don't think it's fair to say that one must be an expert in a given field to critique the work of others in that field, which is what Table 5 was suggesting in his earlier post.
Absolutely not what i was suggesting. I was suggesting that people who don't know what they are talking about should stop pretending that they can build something better.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:33 AM   #508
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That's just it, maybe the initial price tag is enough for some to swallow, but what is the real price tag going to come in at? I'm willing to bet donated money to CP that there's no way in hell this thing ends up costing less than $30 Million once complete.
But why is it such a hard pill to swallow? There's hundreds of millions of dollars being spent on interchanges, ring roads, infrastructure costs, expropriations, etc. in order to accomodate (expanding) sections of this city that most other citizens will barely use, if at all. Surely we could cut costs there, if people are becoming so buttmunching over $22 million?

This is a cost that people really shouldn't have any reason to get upset about given the pricetag of other projects. I'm never going to use an expensive interchange next to Mackenzie Town, but I'm not getting myself up in arms about it.

This is a pedestrian bridge, and if people are complaining about this one, wait until the next one is publically announced. There's a cost associated with that one, too.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:36 AM   #509
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Absolutely not what i was suggesting. I was suggesting that people who don't know what they are talking about should stop pretending that they can build something better.
A popular architect in this town suggested that if people are so against this bridge, AND it's design... let's have them submit their own ideas, since they're so keen.

Just WATCH the crap fly in at that point. Just because it's local in NO WAY means its going to be a good design.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:37 AM   #510
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What I am against is all the typical "my kid could've done that!" or the "let's give it to a high school student to design" crap that you hear when something like this comes up. Belittling a field of study that people have no real understanding of is what I get angry about.

[...]

Absolutely not what i was suggesting. I was suggesting that people who don't know what they are talking about should stop pretending that they can build something better.
Oh, I agree with that completely. Those comments are ridiculous.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:42 AM   #511
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A popular architect in this town suggested that if people are so against this bridge, AND it's design... let's have them submit their own ideas, since they're so keen.
I'm all for that. If somebody can do better (and make it work), great, then they should consider architecture as a field of study.

I'd like to see what some of the bigger players who always get work in town can do...Gibbs Gage, Kasian, Cohos Evamy. I hope they all enter designs for the next one.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:56 AM   #512
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I'd like to see what some of the bigger players who always get work in town can do...Gibbs Gage, Kasian, Cohos Evamy. I hope they all enter designs for the next one.
Trust me, they're all on top of it. It's going to be a GOOD competition, I'll say that right now.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:18 PM   #513
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Sorry if this has been answered... but how is the next one going to be selected? Via public vote or what?
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:30 PM   #514
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I'm all for that. If somebody can do better (and make it work), great, then they should consider architecture as a field of study.

I'd like to see what some of the bigger players who always get work in town can do...Gibbs Gage, Kasian, Cohos Evamy. I hope they all enter designs for the next one.
Yeah, I have a lot of curiosity about how much real imagination exists at firms like these. I really hope they put designs forward to see what they're capable of. I think firms like Sturgess, Eleven Eleven and Marc Boutin have proven their creativity, but they haven't (perhaps with the exception of Sturgess to some degree) been able to carry out high enough profile or large projects.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:32 PM   #515
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Yeah, I have a lot of curiosity about how much real imagination exists at firms like these. I really hope they put designs forward to see what they're capable of. I think firms like Sturgess, Eleven Eleven and Marc Boutin have proven their creativity, but they haven't (perhaps with the exception of Sturgess to some degree) been able to carry out high enough profile or large projects.
You're right, the Water Centre by Sturgess, is probably the biggest one any of the 3 have done, and I doubt most Calgarians even know it exists considering it's industrial location. I'm glad they will get their shot. My guess is, if there is a local winner for the bridge, it will be one of those 3.

I just hope we don't get Gaged with some reflective blue-glass bridge with silly antennas and tacked on "flair".
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:47 PM   #516
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Yeah, I have a lot of curiosity about how much real imagination exists at firms like these. I really hope they put designs forward to see what they're capable of. I think firms like Sturgess, Eleven Eleven and Marc Boutin have proven their creativity, but they haven't (perhaps with the exception of Sturgess to some degree) been able to carry out high enough profile or large projects.
Trust me, there's some really good talent at these firms. Keep in mind, ultimately it's up to the client as to what they want.

The talent is there... but the opportunity has to be, as well. There's little, if any, of them right now.

However, I see this landscape changing with the additons of the Bow, the Cantos Centre, these pedestrian bridges and the redevelopment of the East Village. These projects will initiate a new design standard in this city. It'll be like a domino effect; once some of these get built, it'll open the floodgates for more. This is going to be quite a fun ride, what's coming up here.

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Old 07-31-2009, 01:47 PM   #517
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What is the thing called they inject bull semen into the girl cow with, it will resemble that.
A bull's penis?
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:07 PM   #518
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Trust me, there's some really good talent at these firms. Keep in mind, ultimately it's up to the client as to what they want.

The talent is there... but the opportunity has to be, as well. There's little, if any, of them right now.
Well I sure hope youre right. I guess my question is, if its always the clients fault, why does it feel like Gibbs Gage produces virtually the same building over and over? Unless they get the same client all the time, it feels like they only have a certain amount of tricks in their bag. always highly reflective glass, always some sort of tacked on mast feature, etc.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:11 PM   #519
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Well I sure hope youre right. I guess my question is, if its always the clients fault, why does it feel like Gibbs Gage produces virtually the same building over and over? Unless they get the same client all the time, it feels like they only have a certain amount of tricks in their bag. always highly reflective glass, always some sort of tacked on mast feature, etc.
That's their design style, which clients seem to like. And it fits the client's budget, too. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's the same reason as to why people would go eat at McDonald's or Burger King instead of somewhere else. Familiarity and price. The quality is what it is.

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Old 07-31-2009, 02:19 PM   #520
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A bull's penis?
Unless that other dude moved from his horse fetish to a cow fetish, then we call it Rodell Vereen's penis.
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