Henry Louis Gates Arrested in his own home

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Holy triple negative batman.

How is an off the cuff comment the President makes about a controversial issue not debatable??

You can debate whether or not he should have said it, but I don't see how anyone could disagree with it.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Rerun

The only part that racial profiling played in this case was the racial profiling done by Gates. There was no racial profiling on the part of the officer.

I feel so terrible for white people, constantly being victims of racism in America. They must go home to their suburban homes at night and just cry themselves to sleep after a nice warm glass of entitlement.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Careful, you might fall over from reaching there.

Obama's statement was pretty measured.
1. He said he didn't have the facts.

Obama should have kept his mouth shut then, about this particular episode.

2. He said that it was stupid to arrest a law-abiding citizen in his own home, which it is.

He wasn't arrested in his home. He was arrested outside of his home... for disturbing the peace.... since the guy wouldn't shut up and was causing a disturbance.

3. He said that racial profiling is still a problem in America, which it is. Note--and this is important--that he said he didn't know what role race played in this situation. For those who need a translation--when he says he doesn't know something... that means he doesn't know. It's not a secret code for "Boston cops are racists."

Yes, racial profiling is a problem... and not only in America... its a problem everywhere. However, the only one doing racial profiling here was Gates.

What I find hilarious is that this is the best thing Obama's detractors can find to hit him with nowadays. Like his opinion in this situation matters anyway.

Remember when the president was George Bush, and every press conference brought some new, delicious gaffe that we could all have a field day with? I miss those days.

See my rebuttal above in bold.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Well, there's the fact that Gates' status as a law-abiding citizen is not in dispute--this having been conceded by the Cambridge Police Department and the Mayor of Cambridge.

But you're right. That's a real smoking gun.

You think he was arrested because he was black and the cop is a racist.

I think he was arrested because he was an idiot.

Agree to disagree.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by gargamel

You can debate whether or not he should have said it, but I don't see how anyone could disagree with it.

So I can disagree with the fact that he said it but not what he said?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I feel so terrible for white people, constantly being victims of racism in America. They must go home to their suburban homes at night and just cry themselves to sleep after a nice warm glass of entitlement.

Now you are just being sarcastic in order to avoid the truth in this particular instance.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

Gates should have STFU and appreciated the cops for doing their job, Crowley shouldn't have arrested him.

I know it's nowhere near that simple, but that's basically what it comes down to.

I think you're bang on--and I think it's exactly that simple.

Crowley is probably not a racist. Gates' assumption that he was being racially profiled was understandable under the circumstances, but if he had known the whole story he would have quickly understood that this was not the case. He (at least this is my guess) was too angry too fast to listen to the whole story, and acted rashly.

Crowley, by contrast, made the error of arresting a man on his own property who had committed no crime, and by his own admission violated Massachusetts law by refusing to provide proper identification before entering Gates' home. (note that according to Massachusetts law, it is not enough to say your name and state your affiliation. Police officers must show proper ID when asked.)

I think Obama's summary is pretty accurate, actually. He didn't say Crowley was "racist." He said Crowley was "stupid." I think that probably about sums it up.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Rerun

There was no racial profiling on the part of the officer.

Neither of us have any idea whether or not that's true.

Originally Posted by Rerun

The only part that racial profiling played in this case was the racial profiling done by Gates.

Wrong. Gates' personal experience with racial profiling and his knowledge of the history of racial profiling in America was obviously a factor in why he thought he was being racially profiled. Whether or not he was actaully racially profiled here doesn't change that fact.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I think Obama's summary is pretty accurate, actually. He didn't say Crowley was "racist." He said Crowley was "stupid." I think that probably about sums it up.

Why does he get to pipe up about this one police act though? Where does he get off calling Crowley stupid when the Police Commissioner backs Crowleys actions? Or is he a racist as well?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

You think he was arrested because he was black and the cop is a racist.

I think he was arrested because he was an idiot.

Agree to disagree.

Well, you're now putting words in my mouth.

I did think this was an example of racial profiling earlier, but I now suspect it was merely stupidity. On both sides.

However, since you are now admitting that Gates' worst crime is being an idiot, I guess you agree that he's a law-abiding citizen. Because I think we can both agree that being an idiot is not a crime.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by gargamel

You can debate whether or not he should have said it, but I don't see how anyone could disagree with it.

Yes, Obama is always right.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I think Obama's summary is pretty accurate, actually. He didn't say Crowley was "racist." He said Crowley was "stupid." I think that probably about sums it up.

Well, not quite - he forgot 2 other "stupid" parties - himself and his buddy Gates. That would have summed it up.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Yes, Obama is always right.

I didn't say he's always right, and I didn't even say that he was right to have said anything here. What I said was, it's hard to disagree with the truth of anything that he did say. Which part of his comments did you specifically disagree with?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Why does he get to pipe up about this one police act though?

It's not like he brought it up. He was asked about it by a reporter.

I actually agree that he probably should have said "I can't comment on that, it's an ongoing matter that hasn't yet been resolved." However, he didn't do that, instead choosing to offer a very measured comment that pretty much any reasonable person would agree with.

Are we really going to keep pretending that Obama's very measured and watered-down remarks are a super-big-deal that we all care about? The only people who seem to think this is a major gaffe are people who already didn't like Obama.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Well, not quite - he forgot 3 other "stupid" parties - himself, his buddy Gates and anyone who thinks Obama's comments are in any way relevant to this issue. That would have summed it up.

Fixed.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I didn't say he's always right, and I didn't even say that he was right to have said anything here. What I said was, it's hard to disagree with the truth of anything that he did say. Which part of his comments did you specifically disagree with?

I disagree with it in its entirety - it's incredibly irresponsible for the President to take sides and to comment in ignorance, much like he did in the AIG bonus case. His best response would have been "no comment".

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Now you are just being sarcastic in order to avoid the truth in this particular instance.

No. I'm pointing out that it's dumb for white people to whine about "reverse racism" when someone calls them a name they don't like. There are two kinds of racism. The first is when someone doesn't like members of another race and is mean to them. The second is when someone doesn't like members of another race and uses the institutional backing of the government and police to apply the authority of the state differentially on the basis of race.

Have a guess which one of those Gates was guilty of. Then have a guess which one is what we call "racial profiling" by police. Even if it wasn't an issue in this case, it is an issue in America (and elsewhere), as you've conceded.

Gates was (probably) wrong to assume he was being racially profiled. But his assumption was understandable under the circumstances. Doesn't mean cooler heads shouldn't have prevailed, but context is important here.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Fixed.

You are funny. Anytime the President opens his mouth he influences public opinion, for good or ill.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

You are funny. Anytime the President opens his mouth he influences public opinion, for good or ill.

By the first week of August, the only ones who remember what the President said about the Gates case will be people who posted in this thread.

You vastly overestimate the importance of offhand remarks by the President.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

By the first week of August, the only ones who remember what the President said about the Gates case will be people who posted in this thread.

You vastly overestimate the importance of offhand remarks by the President.

And that makes it alright for Obama to without knowing all the facts call a police officer 'stupid' for doing his job?

If anyone is stupid, its Obama for talking without understanding the situation at all.

Also, Gates wasn't arrested IN his own home. The police officer left, and Gates followed him outside and continued to make racist remarks. THEN he was arrested.