The Big Switch (PC -> Mac)

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

You must be talking about MLXchange....?

correct, but most people know it as MLS so I called it that.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

correct, but most people know it as MLS so I called it that.

Ya its all active X....but rumor has it that MarketLinx was making a non active X version..but its been 2 years

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Just want to add the education pricing on right now. She can get a white 13" MacBook for $1099, and a free 8GB iPod Touch... or go a step up and get the aluminum 13" MacBook Pro for $1299 with the same free 8GB iPod Touch.

Personally, I'm sure the white MacBook will more than suffice. Having said that, though, the aluminum MacBook Pro is well worth the extra $200.

White MacBook ($1099)
Aluminum MacBook Pro ($1299)
iPod Touch (Free)

Education Pricing

Resale value on the unibody macbook is gonna be way higher. The build quiality on them is truly outstanding, for $200, for a machine you are going to use for 3 years, its worth it.

Edit: The 13" Macbook Pro should also have a higher quality screen than the whitebook - I'm not 100% certain on this, however the whitebooks that were available prior to the introduction of the unibody Macs were not very good, in my opinion. The current unibody Macs have what Apple would term their pro quality screen across the lineup.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Resale value on the unibody macbook is gonna be way higher. The build quiality on them is truly outstanding, for $200, for a machine you are going to use for 3 years, its worth it.

Edit: The 13" Macbook Pro should also have a higher quality screen than the whitebook - I'm not 100% certain on this, however the whitebooks that were available prior to the introduction of the unibody Macs were not very good, in my opinion. The current unibody Macs have what Apple would term their pro quality screen across the lineup.

You're correct on the upgraded screen in the unibody (aluminum) MacBooks. They did go to a higher-end LED panel with the latest product refresh in June. You're also bang-on with the resale value vs the white Macbook. The aluminum unibody's are well worth the extra $200.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Finder Menu > Force Quit

Keys: Cmd > Option > Esc

Right Click on the apps dock icon, Force Quit.

In order for this to work, you may need to switch to a different program entirely or the menu at the top won't respond. Command+Tab to switch apps.

[mykalberta]

I played with the MacBook Air last night. Amazed at how thin it is. Over priced but wow - like anorexic thin. Apple sure has hardware design going for them, you have to give them that.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I played with the MacBook Air last night. Amazed at how thin it is. Over priced but wow - like anorexic thin. Apple sure has hardware design going for them, you have to give them that.

My wife has one, and yeah, it's a pretty sweet design. When they first rolled it out though, the wireless CD-ROM functionality (where you could connect wirelessly to another computer and use its drive as though it was local) was incredibly buggy to the point of being useless, and it seems to have an extremely weak airport card. I've got one of the 13 inch macbooks from about four years ago, and it picks up far more wireless signals than her macbook air. Sounds like they've got those things fixed on the newer models, but it was an instance where the functionality was not nearly as slick as the design.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by octothorp

but it was an instance where the functionality was not nearly as slick as the design.

That's my experience with Apple computers in a nutshell. Hardware isn't that good, had two macbooks break down for no reason and they certainly don't do what's advertised.The part that really rubs me is that you pay an extra 20% at least for that design. It's a computer, a tool that does tasks, not a piece of furniture or art. I understand that most Apple users don't see it that way.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

That's my experience with Apple computers in a nutshell. Hardware isn't that good, had two macbooks break down for no reason and they certainly don't do what's advertised.The part that really rubs me is that you pay an extra 20% at least for that design. It's a computer, a tool that does tasks, not a piece of furniture or art. I understand that most Apple users don't see it that way.

Between you and me, I really don't think you want to get into a "how often they crash or break down" conversation in the PC vs Mac world.

Aside from that, if you had two Apple computers literally break down to the point of non-repair, for absolutely no reason, the you should be buying lottery tickets every week.

The price thing is a valid argument. Not everyone sees the value in spending $1500 for a laptop, but the crash test comparison is left field at best.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Between you and me, I really don't think you want to get into a "how often they crash or break down" conversation in the PC vs Mac world.

Aside from that, if you had two Apple computers literally break down to the point of non-repair, for absolutely no reason, the you should be buying lottery tickets every week.

The price thing is a valid argument. Not everyone sees the value in spending $1500 for a laptop, but the crash test comparison is left field at best.

It's not out of left field. Pre Intel switch, right around where they started using IBMs Power processors as the G5 you would have had an argument but the reliability of their machines have taken a serious nose dive. My most reliable Mac is my 10 year old B&W G3 Powermac which is still running all day, everyday since I bought it. Machines I've had since have been plagued with a number of hardware problems that have been fixed reocured and fixed again.

I am at the point now where I am questioning the premium that I pay. What exactly is it giving me? Yes they are a pleasure to work with but there is something to be said about it just working when you need it to. I love OS X and wouldn't run anything else at home and now that I can put it on pretty much any hardware, why would I buy Apple hardware? They don't last any longer and Apple has told me that they don't expect it to anyways.

If I paid for a beautifully designed sofa that was comfortable to sit on but gave me crabs every six months, I would drag it outside and light it on fire. I am at that point with Apple.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

That's my experience with Apple computers in a nutshell. Hardware isn't that good, had two macbooks break down for no reason and they certainly don't do what's advertised.The part that really rubs me is that you pay an extra 20% at least for that design. It's a computer, a tool that does tasks, not a piece of furniture or art. I understand that most Apple users don't see it that way.

This is what I find almost all Mac vs. PC debates break down into. Some people see value in design, some do not. Neither are correct because it just boils down to personal preference. When I'm using a computer it is very important that things look a certain way. Many of my friends make fun of me for that, many agree completely.

As for the macbook air, I really am not a fan. Truthfully I haven't used one (I've only looked at specs). This comes back to the netbook argument for me. Portability is very important, but in my eyes the air gives up way too much functionality and power to get to that size. Somebody who has a great need for such portability would of course disagree, that's just how I see it.

[FanIn80]

I agree on the Air thing. It's neat, I've played with it... Power and performance are more important to me. I mean the MacBook Pros are already incredibly thin themselves.

I can see the Air being attractive to some of the higher-end business crowd. Lawyers, agents, etc. People who do a lot of travelling to people's offices and take a lot of notes. You know, instead of lugging a legal pad around, they just have a MacBook Air.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Russic

As for the macbook air, I really am not a fan. Truthfully I haven't used one (I've only looked at specs). This comes back to the netbook argument for me. Portability is very important, but in my eyes the air gives up way too much functionality and power to get to that size. Somebody who has a great need for such portability would of course disagree, that's just how I see it.

Yup, that's pretty much it. It's not a bad fit for my wife, because she's got a quad-core pro setup at work that runs all her design apps, video editing, and business database. For her, the laptop is entirely a secondary computer, something she can have at home and log into things at work if she needs to, surf, respond to emails, and take it to meetings, or use it to upload unedited photos and video when she's traveling.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Between you and me, I really don't think you want to get into a "how often they crash or break down" conversation in the PC vs Mac world.

Aside from that, if you had two Apple computers literally break down to the point of non-repair, for absolutely no reason, the you should be buying lottery tickets every week.

The price thing is a valid argument. Not everyone sees the value in spending $1500 for a laptop, but the crash test comparison is left field at best.

I'm not so sure I agree with you on this. I've recently started using a Mac, a couple of weeks ago, and I've been plagued with a myriad of crashes and hangs. And pretty serious ones too. I expected it to be much more stable based on the reputation that Mac has.

Two days ago, I had a kernel panic installing a simple OS update. A week or so ago I had an issue where the the computer became totally unresponsive -- apps wouldn't launch when I clicked them, shell command would just hang, etc -- the only way I could get around it was to reboot, but within 10-15 minutes it would return, so I had to reboot every 10-15 minutes. Seriously annoying.

As for the apps, I also couldn't use the default Mail application that comes pre-installed. It worked fine for a few minutes then inexplicably die with no error messages. I also had a spreadsheet that would crash excel upon opening it. Trying to install Office as well, got me into an infinite loop in the installer -- it would tell me that I need rosetta, click ok to install, so I did then it said there was another update in progress (there wasn't) and would bounce me back to the rosetta install menu again.

I realize this is all anecdotal evidence, but my switch to Mac has been less than seamless. I like the OS -- its nicely laid out, clean, easy to use, but the wealth of problems I've encountered are certainly souring my impression of Mac.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Barnes

It's not out of left field. Pre Intel switch, right around where they started using IBMs Power processors as the G5 you would have had an argument but the reliability of their machines have taken a serious nose dive. My most reliable Mac is my 10 year old B&W G3 Powermac which is still running all day, everyday since I bought it. Machines I've had since have been plagued with a number of hardware problems that have been fixed reocured and fixed again.

I am at the point now where I am questioning the premium that I pay. What exactly is it giving me? Yes they are a pleasure to work with but there is something to be said about it just working when you need it to. I love OS X and wouldn't run anything else at home and now that I can put it on pretty much any hardware, why would I buy Apple hardware? They don't last any longer and Apple has told me that they don't expect it to anyways.

If I paid for a beautifully designed sofa that was comfortable to sit on but gave me crabs every six months, I would drag it outside and light it on fire. I am at that point with Apple.

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

I'm not so sure I agree with you on this. I've recently started using a Mac, a couple of weeks ago, and I've been plagued with a myriad of crashes and hangs. And pretty serious ones too. I expected it to be much more stable based on the reputation that Mac has.

Two days ago, I had a kernel panic installing a simple OS update. A week or so ago I had an issue where the the computer became totally unresponsive -- apps wouldn't launch when I clicked them, shell command would just hang, etc -- the only way I could get around it was to reboot, but within 10-15 minutes it would return, so I had to reboot every 10-15 minutes. Seriously annoying.

As for the apps, I also couldn't use the default Mail application that comes pre-installed. It worked fine for a few minutes then inexplicably die with no error messages. I also had a spreadsheet that would crash excel upon opening it. Trying to install Office as well, got me into an infinite loop in the installer -- it would tell me that I need rosetta, click ok to install, so I did then it said there was another update in progress (there wasn't) and would bounce me back to the rosetta install menu again.

I realize this is all anecdotal evidence, but my switch to Mac has been less than seamless. I like the OS -- its nicely laid out, clean, easy to use, but the wealth of problems I've encountered are certainly souring my impression of Mac.

Out of curiosity, what are some of the problems you guys have been having?

I'm not concerned with comparing experiences, since we'll never get an accurate cross-section of Mac buyers here.

[FanIn80]

Just to add, I had a 15" MBP I bought late last year that had problems with the 9400 chip causing the screen to lock up. I called Apple, they had me reset the PRAM... 2 weeks later it happened a second time, I called them back and they booked an appointment for me to bring it to Market Mall. The Genius there looked at it for about 30 seconds after reading the notes on my case, and then ordered a whole new logic board for it. I brought it in a few days later when the part arrived, and it was replaced by 8:00PM that night.

Considering I switched to Macs a year ago... and, in that time, I've bought:

1x 24" iMac
1x 15" MBP
1x 13" MBP
2X 13" MB
1x Apple TV
1x iPhone 3G
1x iPhone 3GS
1x iPod Nano

And I've only had the one problem...

Edit: Whoops. Sorry, meant to add this to the post above.

[Pastiche]

I've had wireless cards die, logic boards needing to be completely replaced, batteries dying all the standard stuff that most laptop users go through.

So I'm certainly not getting any better quality.

There is an argument that OSX is a better OS but the differences are pretty trivial from how I use an OS. What I lack in neat features and useless eye-candy I gain with the fact that the user-base of Windows is huge, that there are countless more programs and apps and countless more support for those apps. That makes me able to find software packages that fit my needs and how I want to use my computer not being forced to use software that makes me use a computer in a way that the developer wants because there's no other competing apps. I highly dislike that about the OSX environment and it makes using Windows much easier and enjoyable.

So basically, in my opinion, you're paying an extra 20-30% for a nice looking tool. If that's how you want to spend your money, by all means.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

I've had wireless cards die, logic boards needing to be completely replaced, batteries dying all the standard stuff that most laptop users go through.

So I'm certainly not getting any better quality.

There is an argument that OSX is a better OS but the differences are pretty trivial from how I use an OS. What I lack in neat features and useless eye-candy I gain with the fact that the user-base of Windows is huge, that there are countless more programs and apps and countless more support for those apps. That makes me able to find software packages that fit my needs and how I want to use my computer not being forced to use software that makes me use a computer in a way that the developer wants because there's no other competing apps. I highly dislike that about the OSX environment and it makes using Windows much easier and enjoyable.

So basically, in my opinion, you're paying an extra 20-30% for a nice looking tool. If that's how you want to spend your money, by all means.

I'm sorry, but you're making way too many general statements. You're making it sound like you have this pile of broken Apple parts kicking around. How many wireless cards have died, and what was the reason? How many logic boards have died, and what were the reason? Batteries, etc?

I've spent a lot of years doing tech support, and the first thing I do is eliminate words like "always," "all the time," "every," etc. Specific instances are the only things that ever matter.

Also, about the software concerns... which pieces of software do you feel like you're forced into using, with no competitive alternatives?

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not disagreeing with your bad Apple experiences, I'm just trying to understand the true picture here. I haven't met a laptop yet (either PC or Mac) that requires the wireless card to be replaced numerous times... without something else being the cause of it. (for example)

[Barnes]

In the last 3 years: 2 Machines.

Logic board failure due to bad capacitors X 2
Power supply failure
Hard drive failure
Power Inverter Failure X 2 (Still buzzing and screen flickering)
Macbook top case discoloured
Macbook case cracked at hinge
Macbook case cracked at magnetic latch
MagSafe adapter burned through cord at mag attachment. This and the second logic board failure put me over the edge.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Barnes

In the last 3 years: 2 Machines.

Logic board failure due to bad capacitors X 2
Power supply failure
Hard drive failure
Power Inverter Failure X 2 (Still buzzing and screen flickering)
Macbook top case discoloured
Macbook case cracked at hinge
Macbook case cracked at magnetic latch
MagSafe adapter burned through cord at mag attachment. This and the second logic board failure put me over the edge.

Wow that's pretty crazy. How are you using these machines? I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm just curious why you'd have so much more bad luck than the average user.

You're not putting your Macbooks in the microwave, are you?

Edit: Mind you, I'm still (relatively) new to the Apple side of things. I should probably just keep my mouth shut, with regards to hardware issues outside of the first year.