Alberta Health-Care Workers Told To Shut Up

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Well you know what they say about you assume something...

Perhaps you should have asked what I meant by "stuff" before flying off into a tizzy.

I shouldn't have to ask.

Flying off in a tizzy? Pot meet kettle

[Rerun]

nm

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Dion

I shouldn't have to ask.

Why not? Are you special?

Originally Posted by Dion

Flying off in a tizzy? Pot meet kettle

Good come back

[Nehkara]

This thread is very interesting.

I think some people don't understand.

If the quality of health care is being adversely affected by poor decisions made by high management of the superboard, it affects YOU!

That's why the employees want to speak out. If someone at Telus is pissed about their boss cutting corners so that they have only 6 customer service reps instead of 10... then you wait on the phone longer.

If someone at Alberta Health Services is pissed because there is only 1 nurse in an ER for an entire day, someone might DIE.

You may describe it as a corporation but it is YOUR lives that are at risk from mismanagement. You should care and that's why the workers want to speak out.

Huge amounts of money are spent on health care and it is not even close to adequate. Not even close to what it should be. That is not on the public system, because that is done well all over the world. Privatization is ludicrous because the only system in the world that fails completely at health care is the US and it is one of the only first world nations with almost completely private health care.

Plain and simply, it is a HUGE mistake to cut health care because you just end up spending HUGE amounts of money to rebuild what you tear down. Ralph was not a genius as some people made him out to be. We are still trying to repair the damage that he caused to the health care system and it looks like just a few years away from taking the next step towards that repair we may see more cuts.

I'm really sorry that so few people here understand the importance of the system and I hope you never have to find out the hard way how important it really is.

I would also like to say to those b*tching and complaining about the wages that if the wages were not what they were, we would have no one at all because the US pays astronomically higher wages for most Health Care Professionals. Not to mention that there is a lot that health care workers go through that is rarely experienced in other professions... such as witnessing death and all manner of horrible diseases.

/rant over

[killer_carlson]

I hope your job is safe, I really do.

However, hanging your hat on Notley and the NDP is something I really have no respect for and quite frankly make me think that the cause is not legitimate and simply a matter of whining, like every other stance the provincial NDP party has on an issue.

The better way to handle this would be for someone to actually make a statement and get disciplined and let the public pressure the government into handling it appropriately. I am not a person who believes this government is lurking behind every corner waiting to put the squeeze on someone who steps out of line, so I doubt that they would be disciplined for a legitimate issue. If they were whining or running their mouth inappropriately and it caused unnecessary drama or panic, then the worker should face the same consequences as someone in private business and be disciplined. If the issue is legitimate, then the management or system should be amended appropriately.

I do think the NDP takes a contrary position on every issue and has zero credibility. I would find it very difficult for me to accept any position they are advancing as legitimate based upon their track record in recent years.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I hope your job is safe, I really do.

However, hanging your hat on Notley and the NDP is something I really have no respect for and quite frankly make me think that the cause is not legitimate and simply a matter of whining, like every other stance the provincial NDP party has on an issue.

Thanks man.

I am not hanging my hat on the provincial NDP. I was just quoting an article. I could care less about what they have to say.

What I want people to understand is that the government is trying to get the people working in health care to stop telling the general public about abuses and mismanagement within the system. These are abuses that could cost people their lives.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Thanks man.

I am not hanging my hat on the provincial NDP. I was just quoting an article. I could care less about what they have to say.

What I want people to understand is that the government is trying to get the people working in health care to stop telling the general public about abuses and mismanagement within the system. These are abuses that could cost people their lives.

You expressed it very well in your last post.

Well stated and to the point.

[killer_carlson]

I edited my post so there was more to it.

I realize you are quoting the article but at the end of the day,

Putting people's lives in jeopardy is a serious issue. Why would anyone think that using the least relevant, most likely to be ignored party in the province to advance such a serious issue would be a good idea? (I know it's not Nekhara)

If i was a health care worker I would like to know who decided to go to the NDP with this, demand that they get fired, then speak to someone to develop a strategy that might actually work.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I edited my post so there was more to it.

I realize you are quoting the article but at the end of the day,

Putting people's lives in jeopardy is a serious issue. Why would anyone think that using the least relevant, most likely to be ignored party in the province to advance such a serious issue would be a good idea? (I know it's not Nekhara)

If i was a health care worker I would like to know who decided to go to the NDP with this, demand that they get fired, then speak to someone to develop a strategy that might actually work.

Perhaps it was not the best decision but it is completely beside the point. The point is that this is happening, who is talking about it in the legislature is beside the point.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Huge amounts of money are spent on health care and it is not even close to adequate. Not even close to what it should be.
/rant over

How much is adequate? When will it ever be enough? The province spends more $$$ on health care than any thing else. ... $30,000,000.00 per day!!! Thats 30 million dollars folks, every day 7 days a week 365 day a year... and its still going up!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1203023/

[killer_carlson]

I don't agree.

There are certain people who get listened to when they speak. There are others who try to make such a big deal out of every issue that I think people naturally just tune them out. In my mind any publicity is not necessarily good publicity.

Who is speaking about it in the legislature is what is going to get the issue addressed, so I think it is entirely relevant which is why I think that if it is indeed as serious as you suggest, that if the intent is to get the situation remedied, you find a way to distance yourself from the NDP.

[Dion]

Doing away with health care premiums was a huge mistake by the Stelmach govt.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Dion

Doing away with health care premiums was a huge mistake by the Stelmach govt.

It just puts us in line with every other province in Canada.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Rerun

How much is adequate? When will it ever be enough? The province spends more $$$ on health care than any thing else. ... $30,000,000.00 per day!!! Thats 30 million dollars folks, every day 7 days a week 365 day a year... and its still going up!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1203023/

I should have worded it better.

What I meant was that many many places around the world get this kind of system to work beautifully.

We spend tons and tons of money and it is not even adequate. We need more hospitals, more beds, more doctors, more nurses, and more of almost every other health care professional. The system is inadequate and still eats up enormous amounts of money.

That kind of financial mismanagement is amazing given the conservatives are supposedly financial wizards.

Alberta Health Services is very very management-heavy. There is TONS of management... tons and tons of people in management who are redundant and not required. Something needs to be done to streamline the management of the AHS and bring in additional accountability to the people at the top.

Projects are also horribly managed within the AHS. For example, our current system for creating reports for diagnostic imaging procedures (MRI, CT, X-ray, Ultrasound) is called TALK. Before it was brought in, there were no consultations done with the people who would be using it, there was seemingly no research of the available systems that exist that might be better, and it performs so poorly that its introduction had to be delayed for 4 years while it was fixed and then once it was introduced it failed again and had to be delayed another 6 months. It is vastly inferior to the system that came before it and it nearly doubled the workload in my job. The company that makes this software had no previous experience in making any kind of software of this type so it was likely the cheapest and worst option and is incredibly cost-ineffective due to production hours lost.

/rant over again

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I should have worded it better.

What I meant was that many many places around the world get this kind of system to work beautifully.

We spend tons and tons of money and it is not even adequate. We need more hospitals, more beds, more doctors, more nurses, and more of almost every other health care professional. The system is inadequate and still eats up enormous amounts of money.

That kind of financial mismanagement is amazing given the conservatives are supposedly financial wizards.

Alberta Health Services is very very management-heavy. There is TONS of management... tons and tons of people in management who are redundant and not required. Something needs to be done to streamline the management of the AHS and bring in additional accountability to the people at the top.

Projects are also horribly managed within the AHS. For example, our current system for creating reports for diagnostic imaging procedures (MRI, CT, X-ray, Ultrasound) is called TALK. Before it was brought in, there were no consultations done with the people who would be using it, there was seemingly no research of the available systems that exist that might be better, and it performs so poorly that its introduction had to be delayed for 4 years while it was fixed and then once it was introduced it failed again and had to be delayed another 6 months. It is vastly inferior to the system that came before it and it nearly doubled the workload in my job. The company that makes this software had no previous experience in making any kind of software of this type so it was likely the cheapest and worst option and is incredibly cost-ineffective due to production hours lost.

/rant over again

The majority of government funding is eaten up by existing labour agreements and inflation, said board chairman Ken Hughes, who called Alberta's spending "out of whack."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1203023/

Sounds to me like the problem lies with labor costs associated with labour agreements (union contracts with staff).... not mismanagement.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Projects are also horribly managed within the AHS. For example, our current system for creating reports for diagnostic imaging procedures (MRI, CT, X-ray, Ultrasound) is called TALK. Before it was brought in, there were no consultations done with the people who would be using it, there was seemingly no research of the available systems that exist that might be better, and it performs so poorly that its introduction had to be delayed for 4 years while it was fixed and then once it was introduced it failed again and had to be delayed another 6 months. It is vastly inferior to the system that came before it and it nearly doubled the workload in my job. The company that makes this software had no previous experience in making any kind of software of this type so it was likely the cheapest and worst option and is incredibly cost-ineffective due to production hours lost.

I went to see my specialist last month for the results of my MRI and the report wasn't even sent. The assistant had to get on the phone to ask where the hell it was. We then had to wait over an a haf hour for it to be faxed over

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Rerun

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1203023/

Sounds to me like the problem lies with labor costs associated with labour agreements (union contracts with staff).... not mismanagement.

Of course the majority of money is spent on staff. There is no health care system without doctors, nurses, x-ray/ultrasound/MRI/CT/NM/Lab technologists, porters, unit clerks, physical therapists, etc. Then on top of that you have food services that makes food for the retail side as well as all the food for the patients, security, facilities management, trades people, etc.

I still maintain that mismanagement is the cause for the deficit in the AHS budget.

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Maybe you should keep your trap shut about things you know nothing about.

Two years ago, my wife used to work in the scheduling department of a major hospital in Calgary, so I think my info is a little better than yours (who has a friend who has a wife... da da, da da, da da...)

She scheduled nurses hours. Nurses like to work part time. The majority seem to like it that way. .... the reason being is the hospital is always chronically short of nursing staff (nobody wants to work full time) so the Scheduling dept has to always be calling up the part time nurses and beg them to come and do this shift or that shift. Usually when they get a hold of the nurses, the usual response is "Im too busy ... call my back when you are willing to pay me double my normal salary".... and of course the scheduling dept always does.
Therefore the nurse end up working a std 40 hour week. 20 hours at regular pay ($32-40 per hour) and 20 hours at double pay.

That is one of the reasons our health care costs are so high.

My wife hated her job. You wouldn't believe how hard the nurses were to deal with and the abuse she took from them for just trying to do her job. She ended up quitting because of it.

I agree that the scheduling of nurses is a clusterfark, but the system is set up that way because the hospital likes it, not because the nurses like it. The hospitals like it so much because they save money on benefits and have more flexibility in scheduling staff. There are some nurses that like the PT system, and work it for the extra premiums, but many of the nurses on PT shifts would rather be full time. I know this because my wife was stuck on a part time line for 2 years before she was able to get a full time position... the competition for FT is actually pretty stiff. She'd get the calls from your wife and would turn them down because it's impossible to arrange child care on such short notice, and on-call work generally wreaks havoc on family and social life.

[Rerun]

I'll tell you a couple of stories about mine and my wife's hospital experiences

Two years ago I took my wife to hospital emergency dept because she was complaining of extreme stomach pain, tenderness in the abdominal region, and vomiting. We waited in the emergency dept for 4 hours before she was admitted into the dept. We stayed there a couple of more hours and hospital decided it was just indigestion or something like that and sent her home.

That night we went to bed and my wife woke up at about 2 am in terrible pain (she said it felt like someone stuck a knife in her). I rushed her back to the hospital and again waited 3 hours before she was admitted. My wife looked just awful.
Finally after about 4 hours after arriving there she sees a doctor. He examines her and says "I think you have appendicitis and it may have burst... we'll have to do an exploratory operation". Well 9 hours after getting to the hospital they cut her open.. and guess what ... her appendix had burst. She was in the hospital for 2 weeks recovering because she also developed Septicemia which is a life threatening infection... all as a result of her burst appendix.


My story.... in Dec 2007 I was admitted to the hospital with life threatening accute pancreatitis (I didn't know it was life threatening at the time although it the sickest I had ever been and it was the worst pain I've ever been in... later after I was released one of the nurse's confided in me that it was touch and go there for a bit and at one time they were concerned that I might not make it). Anyways I was in the hospital for 2 weeks and I'll tell you that there some very good nurses who cared about there patients and some others who didn't give a crap about the people they had to look after (you could tell that to them it was just a job... put there shift time in and get the hell out of the place)... to me its seemed like the latter were the majority.
As I said, I was extremely sick. I lost over 30 lbs in two weeks. One night I woke up (I was only able to sleep for about 2 hours at a time) with a real bad case of the night sweats. My bed was just soaking wet. That night I had one of the crappy nurses in charge. She had previously given me a hard time for bothering her too much... you know asking for a drink of water ... kind of stuff.. I was laid up in bed, could barely move, introvenous fluids and painkillers (hydromorphone... very potent stuff... I was in so much pain that demeral and something else they tried, didn't do squat for me). So here I am its 3 in the morning and I can't fall back to sleep because it feels like I'm laying in a pool of water. I don't want to ask the nurse because I know she'll be pissed off for bothering her... so I crawl out of bed and slowly shuffle into the hallway pushing my IV cart, to look for the linen closet so I can get some fresh sheets and a blanket (I was really cold .... probably because my temp was about 103F but sweating at the same time). I found it and changed my own bedding and just about passed out at the same time. All because some nurses treat their patients like crap.

Not all nurses are like that... there were a couple who were just angels and I made a point of going back there when I was better to thank them for the wonderful care they gave me. They discharged me after 2 weeks but I wasn't fully recovered til about 4 to 6 weeks after I got out of the hospital. I went back after I was completely well. The other nurses, the ones who don't care anymore, I didn't say squat too.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Sounds to me like the problem lies with labor costs associated with labour agreements (union contracts with staff).... not mismanagement.

The government has (had) been raking in billions in surpluses for years and they went back in the red the minute oil prices tanked. Are you going to blame the nurses for that?

It's obviously gross mismanagement of everything if we are even talking about cuts to essential services. They should have plenty of money but they don't because they effed everything up.