Pride parade funded - Conservatives in a tizzy - Ablonczy demoted

[Kidder]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I disagree with this. I think the whole its ok to celebrate minority activities while not celebrating mainstream or majority view points is wrong.

And before you jump on me about white supremacists, that's not what I'm talking about at all. But there would be nothing wrong in my mind with something like a hetero sexual pride parade since we're celebrating sexuality in the community as long as its not something that's insulting or harmfull to the gay community.

But instead we take the simplistic view that being normal in a demographic sense is something to be mourned.

Not intending to attack you here CC, I know you've already departed the thread, but just had to comment on this viewpoint.

It's a little ludicrous to suggest that normalcy (in this case heterosexuality) is something we as a society mourn. Think of the biggest celebration of all! Marriage and Weddings are currently being protected and reserved for heterosexuals in many parts of the United States. Most heterosexuals didn't/don't have to face rejection from their families, ostracization from their communities, or persecution from complete strangers who believe they're acting on God's or nature's will... all because of a sexual orientation they didn't choose.

Pride parades originated as Gay liberation and Gay freedom parades. They began as a way to raise awareness of the persecution, predjudice and violence homosexuals were facing. As society has become more accepting and tolerant in some cultures they've been able to morph into more or a celebration of being who you are and accepting diversity.

Do some take it too far? Undoubtedly.
Are some actually hindering the efforts of the bigger community with their displays? Probably.
Is it appropriate to allocate public funds to help support a celebration like this? Obviously debateable.

But in some places around this globe, homosexuals still do not receive the same treatment, benefits and basic human rights as heterosexuals.

Until that distinction is eradicated, there will probably remain a purpose for events such as the gay pride parade. (And even if that day comes, they'll probably still exist as a celebration for the martyrs that paved the way).

They're not for me, but I feel damn proud that we as a country support a festival that celebrates tolerance and diversity and allows some people who have experienced a lot of pain and misery in their lifetime (from all over the world) a chance to be proud of whoever they may be. And that being said, there'd be nothing wrong with celebrating heterosexuality in a parade. But as it's already been stated that there are events that do that very thing (mardi gras, spring break, etc) and I think most would find it superfluous to organize a parade for something that is celebrated on a daily basis.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Kidder

Not intending to attack you here CC, I know you've already departed the thread, but just had to comment on this viewpoint.

It's a little ludicrous to suggest that normalcy (in this case heterosexuality) is something we as a society mourn. Think of the biggest celebration of all! Marriage and Weddings are currently being protected and reserved for heterosexuals in many parts of the United States. Most heterosexuals didn't/don't have to face rejection from their families, ostracization from their communities, or persecution from complete strangers who believe they're acting on God's or nature's will... all because of a sexual orientation they didn't choose.

Pride parades originated as Gay liberation and Gay freedom parades. They began as a way to raise awareness of the persecution, predjudice and violence homosexuals were facing. As society has become more accepting and tolerant in some cultures they've been able to morph into more or a celebration of being who you are and accepting diversity.

Do some take it too far? Undoubtedly.
Are some actually hindering the efforts of the bigger community with their displays? Probably.
Is it appropriate to allocate public funds to help support a celebration like this? Obviously debateable.

But in some places around this globe, homosexuals still do not receive the same treatment, benefits and basic human rights as heterosexuals.

Until that distinction is eradicated, there will probably remain a purpose for events such as the gay pride parade. (And even if that day comes, they'll probably still exist as a celebration for the martyrs that paved the way).

They're not for me, but I feel damn proud that we as a country support a festival that celebrates tolerance and diversity and allows some people who have experienced a lot of pain and misery in their lifetime (from all over the world) a chance to be proud of whoever they may be. And that being said, there'd be nothing wrong with celebrating heterosexuality in a parade. But as it's already been stated that there are events that do that very thing (mardi gras, spring break, etc) and I think most would find it superfluous to organize a parade for something that is celebrated on a daily basis.

I think you mis-interpreted what I'm saying. I have no problem with the Gay Pride Parade and what it stands for. I think its great that there is an avenue where they can work towards equalization and social acceptance.

And your right in terms of things like weddings and events that celebrate the majority majority demographic, I'm fine with that.

And maybe I mis spoke when I talked about mourning the normalcy instead of celebrating. But I firmly stand by the fact that if a group of hetero-sexuals decided to have a straight pride parade, they wouldn't find that easy acceptance because of the political correctness movement, and that they would get a cold shoulder from the government if they requested funding.

It would be seen as incredibly offensive by some and be attacked by others as an attack on the rights of the homo sexual community even if a straight pride parade had nothing to do with the gay pride movement.

I agree its great that we live in a country that supports diversity and works hard for gay rights and minority rights, but shouldn't a country embrace all aspects of its makeup and not just grab and hold onto whatever is popular or can gain votes right now?

[Devils'Advocate]

Is there a need for a "straight pride parade"? Are there large throngs of people that are absolutely ashamed of themselves for being straight?

[Kidder]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think you mis-interpreted what I'm saying. I have no problem with the Gay Pride Parade and what it stands for. I think its great that there is an avenue where they can work towards equalization and social acceptance.

And your right in terms of things like weddings and events that celebrate the majority majority demographic, I'm fine with that.

And maybe I mis spoke when I talked about mourning the normalcy instead of celebrating. But I firmly stand by the fact that if a group of hetero-sexuals decided to have a straight pride parade, they wouldn't find that easy acceptance because of the political correctness movement, and that they would get a cold shoulder from the government if they requested funding.

It would be seen as incredibly offensive by some and be attacked by others as an attack on the rights of the homo sexual community even if a straight pride parade had nothing to do with the gay pride movement.

I agree its great that we live in a country that supports diversity and works hard for gay rights and minority rights, but shouldn't a country embrace all aspects of its makeup and not just grab and hold onto whatever is popular or can gain votes right now?

You're absolutely right it would be met with vehement opposition by some. And my guess as to why is that a straight pride parade would be viewed by some as a response to gay pride parades. In that, I'm proud to be straight... and not gay.

Even if that wasn't the intention at all I'm sure some would percieve it as an anti-gay message. Therein lies the problem.

I think Canada does quite well embracing all aspects of its makeup. Cultures, genders, orientations, history, ethnicities, etc.

And not directed to you, but a comment on the original point of this thread:
Ablonczy delegated .2% (0.002!) of her budget for an event that directly celebrates ~5-10% of the population, and that brings in a very healthy economic return that benefits the entire population. The issue here seems to be a social issue, and unfortunately I wouldn't expect anything different from Harper and his Conservative cronies.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Are there large throngs of people that are absolutely ashamed of themselves for being straight?

Yeah. They're known as Leaf fans.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Yeah. They're known as Leaf fans.

No, no. They are ashamed of being alive.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

No, no. They are ashamed of being alive.

Yeah. That's right. It's their parents that are ashamed of being straight.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Not really..people who aren't going to be tolerant of you, aren't going to change their mind after a pride parade. These things take time, it will take a maybe another 10-15 years before you won't feel the way you do on the general public...

I can't speak for everyone, but as for myself I used to be a total homophobe. Especially because of going to Jr. High in Calgary after going to a liberal arts school in Germany I was called fag, queer, gay, all that and it psychologically eff'd me right up.

I was so homophobic that for years I would not wear any nice clothes, take care of my hair, and especially would not partake in any kind of "hero worship" because it meant I was gay and wanted to have gay sex with them.

Anyway, as I got older and wiser (and when I was 17 did an eff-load of MDMA and raved a lot...lol...) I began meeting more and more homosexual men. Not because it was a concentrated effort or anything, more like the self-imposed blinders were coming off and I was becoming aware of other people much more deeply.

Fast forward a few years and I move to Toronto to go to audio school. I lived on Church Street, right at Yonge Street. For those who don't know, Church Street is the gay captial of Canada. Four of my five roomates in student res were gay. Two were seeing each other! Paper thin walls and all led to me actually being woken up by their insanely rowdy romping.

So I go to school for the year and make loads of friends both straight and gay and basically learned acceptance.

The gay community doesn't want to hurt anyone, and if you had been persecuted to the ends of the earth, forced to live a double life, lie to yourself/family/friends, etc etc etc for simply being who you are then you'd want a big friggin parade to celebrate too!

And that "big friggin parade" went right by my front door. It was one of the best parties ever. I kicked back on the porch with like 12 beers and a big bag of weed and took it for what it was.

While some of the participants choices of expression may not have been to my taste, there was certainly nothing so offensive that I couldn't watch or stopped enjoying myself.

That was the day I completely lost my homophobia.

Live, and let live.

[FlamesAddiction]

Just consider this issue the next time you vote... Maybe it will sway people to either supporting the Conservatives or not supporting them.

Right now, it's their prerogative to spend how they see fit. If you voted for them and yet disagree with the social conservatism that is a recognizable part of the party, then maybe consider voting for someone else next time.... or vice versa.

[MRCboicgy]

Wow long thread, lots to have read. I think it must be hard to be the PM as he has wacky right wing nut jobs to appease as much as the small c conservatives. Not taking into account his personal feelings of course.

I think, if it's a revenue generator, that there should be no problems, but whatever.

Put me in the group of gay folk that doesn't care about pride parade. I have a ton to say about it all, but this isn't the time nor place--maybe if I get up on my high horse I'll post, but I tend to not articulate myself in the way I wish on a text-based forum. Maybe over a beer...

Edit: this blog I read last year pretty much sums it up for me. http://shakespearessister.blogspot.c...pride-day.html

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just consider this issue the next time you vote... Maybe it will sway people to either supporting the Conservatives or not supporting them.

Right now, it's their prerogative to spend how they see fit. If you voted for them and yet disagree with the social conservatism that is a recognizable part of the party, then maybe consider voting for someone else next time.... or vice versa.

Sure, there may be a few things about the CP's that I disagree with, but which party doesn't have that.
However, on the whole, I support the Conservative Party and their platform and the way they have managed this country in the last 3.5 years.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Sure, there may be a few things about the CP's that I disagree with, but which party doesn't have that.
However, on the whole, I support the Conservative Party and their platform and the way they have managed this country in the last 3.5 years.

The conservative party of Canada at least....barring a few things they have done.

Either way....I don't get 'pride' parades at all.

Wow, you're gay...and you're proud. Big frickin' deal.

I come from Pincher Creek, Alberta....and I'm proud too, of where I come from.

Can we have a parade now?

[Shawnski]

Wafergate, now this. Apparently no one read my previous link to a Canadian Press article where a gay Conservative Senator debunks much of this.

Right off the get go, the OP has "Conservatives in a tizzy" and "Ablonsky demoted" in the thread title. Neither are factual. "Conservative" (singular) in the name of one Brad Trost made a comment that if it were not for a minority government might see him now sitting as an independent. And in no way has Ablonsky been demoted.

From the story I previously posted...

Senator Nancy Ruth says the MP who publicly criticized Ablonczy is one of only a handful who grumbled about the $400,000 tourism grant at a June caucus meeting.

OK, so there were a few, but that doesn't put them into a "tizzy". Give me a break.

Further, she states:

She says she has never felt any awkwardness about the fact she is gay from Prime Minister Stephen Harper or any of his staff.
"It just isn't an issue."

She continues on the handful of people having a problem...

But Ruth says a small minority in the caucus have made it known to her in subtle ways that they don't approve of her sexual orientation.
"This isn't party specific, I think it's more religion specific or philosophy specific - there are those who don't like gays and don't want them around," said Ruth, who is an ordained United Church minister.

As to support for Trost's comments...

But another Tory MP questioned Trost's interpretation of events.
"My reaction from what I'm hearing is that he's making most of it up," said the Conservative, who did not want to be identified.

Hell, that last quote is even from an article in the big L paper the Star.

I am with the Captain on this. I think any gay pride event is just fine, but they really should think about the image and impressions they are leaving. Keeping it a "G" rating would be wise.

Could you imagine a "Fotze Humour Pride" parade? Holy hell. Stay away from the "Free Lolipops" stands.... and that would be the cleanest part. Nothing illegal there either, but seriously is that what you would want on your streets... supported by taxpayer dollars?

The way I see it, most of you on this site are younger. Naturally youth has a liberal mindset. Over time however you will find yourselves more and more conservative as the NEXT generation takes what you have done and takes it many steps further into areas you don't or won't associate with...

Conservatives are more status quo. That is a given, but they can't stop the horses from moving in whatever direction they chose to go. Conservatives are but the "reigns" to keep them at a moderate pace and not a free for all. When many of you age, you will realize this.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Azure

I come from Pincher Creek, Alberta....and I'm proud too, of where I come from.

Can we have a parade now?

August 15th.

http://www.pincher-creek.com/

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

I come from Pincher Creek, Alberta....and I'm proud too, of where I come from. Can we have a parade now?

I wasn't aware that there were people ashamed of being from Pincher Creek.

According to several studies (see Wikipedia links on 'Teen Suicide') that suggest that homosexual teens are 3x more likely to commit suicide than heterosexual teens out of feelings of isolation, abnormality and societal condemnation.

If the people of Pincher Creek feel so shamed and alone regarding their place of origin, then yeah, I say go ahead and have a parade.

I think part of the "pride" thing is to get people, people that have suffered from a feeling of disgrace for who and what they are, feeling happy and unashamed about their sexuality. If the people of Pincher Creek suffer from the same feelings of shame and disgrace from years of religious, cultural and societal persecution, then I think a parade is called for.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I wasn't aware that there were people ashamed of being from Pincher Creek.

According to several studies (see Wikipedia links on 'Teen Suicide') that suggest that homosexual teens are 3x more likely to commit suicide than heterosexual teens out of feelings of isolation, abnormality and societal condemnation.

If the people of Pincher Creek feel so shamed and alone regarding their place of origin, then yeah, I say go ahead and have a parade.

I think part of the "pride" thing is to get people, people that have suffered from a feeling of disgrace for who and what they are, feeling happy and unashamed about their sexuality. If the people of Pincher Creek suffer from the same feelings of shame and disgrace from years of religious, cultural and societal persecution, then I think a parade is called for.

When you put it like that, Pincher Creek definitely needs a parade.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I wasn't aware that there were people ashamed of being from Pincher Creek.

According to several studies (see Wikipedia links on 'Teen Suicide') that suggest that homosexual teens are 3x more likely to commit suicide than heterosexual teens out of feelings of isolation, abnormality and societal condemnation.

If the people of Pincher Creek feel so shamed and alone regarding their place of origin, then yeah, I say go ahead and have a parade.

I think part of the "pride" thing is to get people, people that have suffered from a feeling of disgrace for who and what they are, feeling happy and unashamed about their sexuality. If the people of Pincher Creek suffer from the same feelings of shame and disgrace from years of religious, cultural and societal persecution, then I think a parade is called for.

I don't look it like that.

If being gay is ever going to be 'normal' to us.....or society in general, we should stop having parades on it.

Don't make it more than it should be.

People kill themselves because they're fat too.

Should we have parades for fat people? Skinny people?

[Zarathustra]

Yep. Being gay and being fat are pretty much the same thing.

I don't know why these homosexuals haven't figured out that once they start working out and watching their diet they will become straight.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Azure

Should we have parades for fat people? Skinny people?

Mardi Gras translated is Fat Tuesday.

Skinny parade? Fashion Week in Milan.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Yep. Being gay and being fat are pretty much the same thing.

I don't know why these homosexuals haven't figured out that once they start working out and watching their diet they will become straight.

My mom is more upset about me getting chubby than she was when she found out I like the back-door play.