Pride parade funded - Conservatives in a tizzy - Ablonczy demoted

[jammies]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Again, if its generating 100,000,000 for local businesses then it should no longer be something that the government is funding, its in a stable position and its shown relevance to the business community so you put the responsibility for fund raising and the businesses that directly benefit to support it.

Restating your opinion is not an argument. The point I'm making is that fund raising that relies on an honor system misapplied to amoral entities (businesses) is not necessarily going to work. If it did, the government wouldn't be covering the shortfall in revenues for so many such endeavors.

You seem to think that the funding issues are solvable by simply increasing the effort made to extract donations from private sources. This is analogous to the well-known advice for poor people that they should make more money; it is technically sound but functionally useless. For all you know, they are already extracting the maximum amount of money possible from their donors, meaning that if the government withdrew their money, the whole structure might collapse. We can't be sure that this is the case, but if there is even 1 chance in 100 that it would, it's a bad bet to try to save $400 000 when the downside is costing the local economy $100 000 000.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Nope, all i am saying is Pride Parades aren't going to change anyone lack of tolerance, those who aren't tolerant aren't attending pride parades. The benefit if these events are moreso for the participants - you get a day where you can just be yourself and celebrate that with your peers and people who support you, nothing wrong with that at all.....I just don't think that the purpose should be to change anyones mind, and if it does that is great...

You make some very good points.

Pride is about many things.

Pride allows us to build a community to come together to try to change minds. A lot of gay people have lost their families and lost their friends through the coming out process...Pride week is an opportunity for us to say "Here I am - in spite of everything I might have lost, I have survived and I am still proud of who I am."

I remember my first Pride and welling up with tears when I saw older straight couples holding hands and giving us the thumbs up or applauding as we walked down the road. That really meant something to me.

For other people, Pride is an opportunity to let loose and have a great time with friends kinda like BSD. It is about travelling to other cities and meeting new people.

[SebC]

If you look at the parade as a protest against the mistreatment of homosexuals:

For any kind of protest to be effective it needs to get people's attention. Gay people acting normal doesn't do that.

This whole episode reminds me of why I will never vote conservative: economic policies be damned, the party has a social conservative agenda that I simply will not support.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

They can't educate them about gays because they don't want them to see real gay people displaying their sexual identity? For children the Pride Parade probably isn't the best place to start but I would certainly take my children to a pride parade if I really want to educate them about gay culture.

These aren't real gay people. They're freaks, just like female heterosexual porn stars with huge silicone enhanced breasts are freaks.

They in no way represent the average gay person. They are an abnormality within the population. Unfortunately, the squeaky wheel get the grease and the rest of gay society is unfortunately tagged with the same label.

[Pastiche]

You should listen to yourself.

These people are abnormal freaks for wearing leather chaps and thongs?

This conversation is getting scary.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

You make some very good points.

Pride is about many things.

Pride allows us to build a community to come together to try to change minds. A lot of gay people have lost their families and lost their friends through the coming out process...Pride week is an opportunity for us to say "Here I am - in spite of everything I might have lost, I have survived and I am still proud of who I am."

I remember my first Pride and welling up with tears when I saw older straight couples holding hands and giving us the thumbs up or applauding as we walked down the road. That really meant something to me.

For other people, Pride is an opportunity to let loose and have a great time with friends kinda like BSD. It is about travelling to other cities and meeting new people.

Good post.

So Ben, you seem to come from a more communitarian perspective; what do you think of Pastiche's justification of some of the more seedy elements of the Pride parades?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Sexuality is part of being gay. I don't think sexuality is an inherently bad thing. Actually, I think it is a very good thing and it should not be trivialized by cheap stunts.

There is a debate within the "queer community" about assimilation. Do gays and lesbians want to be seen as the same as everybody else or do we want to affirm our differences. Do we lose what makes us who we are if we become just like everybody else? Pride can either be a way to say, "hey everyone, I'm just like you!" or it can be a way to say "hey everyone, I'm here, I'm queer, and I'm not going away but I am still equal." I tend to fall somewhere in the middle. I am not going to downplay my sexuality for acceptance like the first group but I won't have some of the alienating effects that the second group can have. I know that I am essentially different because of my sexuality but I am just a normal guy and don't really draw much attention to myself. Even though I am different at my essence from heterosexuals, I will fight for equal rights for me and everyone else.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

You should listen to yourself.

These people are abnormal freaks for wearing leather chaps and thongs?

This conversation is getting scary.

Ah but if it only ended at that... unfortunately it doesn't.

[Pastiche]

Where does it end?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Where does it end?

Apparently you missed reading and looking at the pics in this post...


Attn: Not Work Safe...

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=135

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Ah but if it only ended at that... unfortunately it doesn't.

Did they buy their thongs at a massive discount???

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

Did they buy their thongs at a massive discount???

I think they forgot their thongs.

[Shawnski]

So some of you might consider another version of events, this from a gay Conservative Senator.... link.

[troutman]

The Bronski Beat is on the radio right now as I read this thread:

Mother will never understand
Why you had to leave
But the answers you seek
Will never be found at home
The love that you need
Will never be found at home

Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.

[fatso]

isn't the argument that the Pride Parade "deviants" do not represent the "average" gay person - and thus ought not to be out parading - kind of reductive and insulting?

The fear that gay people are being 'stereotyped' by these parades may be rooted in some kind of reasonable concern about the gay community and their treatment by the straight majority, but it strikes me as somewhat insulting in its implicit desire to institute a particular and specific vision of what 'gay' means. I don't mean that as an insult per se, just as more of an observation of the logic at work. It would be like saying white supremacists shouldn't march because they're iterating a stereotype of all white people as bigots. The real argument is that they shouldn't march because they're idiots. (Having said that, I hate the analogy drawn between gay pride and white pride, but since it was earlier made, I'll roll with it). At the very least, the true offenders here are those who are intolerant of others' private lives, not the individuals who won't capitulate to the majority's understanding of them.

I thought the whole point of these parades is that there is no singular gay identity out there and what's being promoted is that gay people come in all shapes and sizes and clothing. The Pride Parade, as I see it, is a celebration of the different facets of people who self-identify as gay. Whether they are wearing suits or leather chaps, they are out there expressing themselves in public.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Photos of 2008 Calgary Pride - http://www.pridecalgary.ca/Photos.aspx?event=2190

Exceedingly tame...very safe for work!

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Photos of 2008 Calgary Pride - http://www.pridecalgary.ca/Photos.aspx?event=2190

Exceedingly tame...very safe for work!

Looks like a lot of fun and a good time was had by all.

I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with something like this. Who know's, maybe this year I'll go down to it to show my support.

See ya there. What day is it being held?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Sept 6th -- usually held in June but they moved it this year. Weird to have on the Labour Day long weekend but we'll see how it goes! Lots of rain in the past probably convinced people to try a new date. Let hope for some sun this year.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Sept 6th -- usually held in June but they moved it this year. Weird to have on the Labour Day long weekend but we'll see how it goes! Lots of rain in the past probably convinced people to try a new date. Let hope for some sun this year.

Unfortunately, if its being held on Sept 6, I'll have to miss it as my wife and I are going to BC that week to visit family.

Have a good time and drink a few cold ones for me...

[ben voyonsdonc]

I sure will!