Steve Mcnair shot dead

[dirk diggler]

Mcnair shot to death in double murder, very sad. while he was never my favourite player, a sad day nonetheless

[FurnaceFace]

Just saw this on TSN. Crazy.

Based solely on the description it sounds like the woman he was with killed him then herself.

[Porkchopp]

Reuters, Saturday July 4 2009

CHICAGO, July 4 (Reuters) - Former NFL quarterback Steve McNair has been found dead in Nashville of a gunshot wound in an apparent murder-suicide, according to local media reports.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8592066

[Porkchopp]

I don't know if the police have released anything r if this is simply speculation

[Super-Rye]

RIP. My teams franchise QB for so long...it's a shame. Guy was the embodiment of what a team player is.

[valo403]

It appears he was the victim of a murder-suicide. He was found with multiple gunshot wounds while a 20 year old female friend was found beside him with a single gunshot wound to the head and a pistol nearby.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4306275

[liamenator]

Bizarre, bizarre circumstances.

From http://tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=283724

Nashville police spokesman Don Aaron identified the woman as 20-year-old Sahel Kazemi, whom he called a "friend" of McNair's. She had a single gunshot wound to the head.
[...]
The bodies were discovered Saturday afternoon by McNair's longtime friend Wayne Neeley, who said he rents the condo with McNair.
[...]
Police said a witness saw McNair arrive at the condo in the upscale Rutledge Hill neighbourhood between 1:30 and 2 a.m. ET Saturday and that Kazemi's vehicle was already there. The condominium is located within walking distance of an area filled with restaurants and nightspots, a few blocks from the Cumberland River and within view of the Titans' stadium.


Two days ago, Nashville police arrested Kazemi on a DUI charge while driving a 2007 Escalade registered to her and McNair. McNair was in the front seat, but didn't break the law and was allowed to leave by taxi.
The arrest affidavit said Kazemi had bloodshot eyes and the smell of alcohol on her breath, but refused a breathalyzer test, saying "she was not drunk, she was high."

Found dead by (alleged) murder-suicide, with a woman that is not his wife, but with whom he has a vehicle registered in both their names, and in an apartment rented by he and a buddy. I don't want to speculate but I don't think it's a stretch to envision this was a bizarre love triangle that went horribly, horribly wrong. Scary stuff.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by liamenator

Bizarre, bizarre circumstances.

From http://tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=283724



Found dead by (alleged) murder-suicide, with a woman that is not his wife, but with whom he has a vehicle registered in both their names, and in an apartment rented by he and a buddy. I don't want to speculate but I don't think it's a stretch to envision this was a bizarre love triangle that went horribly, horribly wrong. Scary stuff.

I don't know where you're getting a love triangle from, who's the third person?

For all we know the woman was a friend of the family, it's not really a good idea to jump to these kind of conclusions.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't know where you're getting a love triangle from, who's the third person?

For all we know the woman was a friend of the family, it's not really a good idea to jump to these kind of conclusions.

It's been widely reported that she was his gf. Now that some of these details are coming out, I have less and less respect for McNair and more sympathy for his wife and 4 kids.

Assuming all these reports that this 20 year old was a little treat for him are true, I'm thinking less and less of the top shelf football player and more and more of just a guy who put himself in a situation that created a widow and left 4 kids to be raised by one parent.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't know where you're getting a love triangle from, who's the third person?

For all we know the woman was a friend of the family, it's not really a good idea to jump to these kind of conclusions.

Uh, the third person would probably be his wife?

Sure, she 'may' be a friend of the family. But, let's be honest, how do 98% of these situations turn out? It's not like I'm throwing out completely wild, baseless accusations here.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by liamenator

Uh, the third person would probably be his wife?

Sure, she 'may' be a friend of the family. But, let's be honest, how do 98% of these situations turn out? It's not like I'm throwing out completely wild, baseless accusations here.

Actually you are. You're talking about a love triangle gone wrong, which implies that the 3rd person involved was the perpetrator, and there's absolutely no evidence of that at the moment.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

It's been widely reported that she was his gf. Now that some of these details are coming out, I have less and less respect for McNair and more sympathy for his wife and 4 kids.

Assuming all these reports that this 20 year old was a little treat for him are true, I'm thinking less and less of the top shelf football player and more and more of just a guy who put himself in a situation that created a widow and left 4 kids to be raised by one parent.

That's ridiculous. The family home was put up for sale a little while ago, it's certainly possible that there wasn't much of a marriage remaining at all.

And how exactly does having an affair, if that's even the case, turn into putting yourself "in a situation that created a widow"?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by valo403

Actually you are. You're talking about a love triangle gone wrong, which implies that the 3rd person involved was the perpetrator, and there's absolutely no evidence of that at the moment.

Maybe I'm missing something that you are trying to point out, but even the police are hinting that they think this is a murder/suicide.

That would mean that the 3rd person in the triangle IS the perpetrator.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's ridiculous. The family home was put up for sale a little while ago, it's certainly possible that there wasn't much of a marriage remaining at all.

And how exactly does having an affair, if that's even the case, turn into putting yourself "in a situation that created a widow"?

are you serious, he's a 36 year old multi millionaire dating some chick from D&B's. Every single 36 year old multi millionaire who starts dating someone whos a few months removed from being a teenager is putting themselves in a bad spot.

Your playing long odds in a scenario where a 36 year old with lots of money starts dating a 20 year old with no money works out well.

EDIT: this will probably evolve into something similar to MJ's death (albeit a smaller scale) Some people see the artist and performer and simply focus on that, some people look at how he chose to live his life and turn it into a train wreck for the second half ... and the 2 groups don't understand each other at all.

Here, some will see the athlete, one of the best football players in his time, played through injuries, the best double threat QB for about a decade and played for the same team for a long time and won't get past that. And some will see someone who made some dumb decisions (again assuming that was his gf and this was a murder & suicide) and forget about the football.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by valo403

Actually you are. You're talking about a love triangle gone wrong, which implies that the 3rd person involved was the perpetrator, and there's absolutely no evidence of that at the moment.

'Absolutely none' is a gross overstatement.

From: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

An unnamed employee of the restaurant told WSMV reporter Deanna Lambert that McNair and Kazemi "met there months ago and he is under the impression that the two had been in a relationship for about six to eight months," Lambert told CTV News Channel on Sunday morning.

Care to get off your moral high-horse now?

[valo403]

Moral high horse? WTF are you even talking about? I'm on a moral high horse when I'm the one saying that having a relationship with a 20 year old doesn't necessarily mean anything? I think you may have misspoken.

As for your 'love triangle gone wrong' theory, this is why it's a ridiculous claim. I'll use the information from your own source because I know you're familiar with it.

- As you've said, the 'triangle' is supposedly involving McNair, his wife, and Kazemi
- A love triangle gone wrong implies that the 3rd member of the love triangle had something to do with the deaths
- The police have stated that they do not believe that Mechelle McNair had anythign to do with the deaths

Is that clear enough for you?

That something went wrong between Steve McNair and Kazemi would be a pretty apparent claim, your claim has drawn in third parties where there's no evidence that a third party was even involved.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

are you serious, he's a 36 year old multi millionaire dating some chick from D&B's. Every single 36 year old multi millionaire who starts dating someone whos a few months removed from being a teenager is putting themselves in a bad spot.

Your playing long odds in a scenario where a 36 year old with lots of money starts dating a 20 year old with no money works out well.

EDIT: this will probably evolve into something similar to MJ's death (albeit a smaller scale) Some people see the artist and performer and simply focus on that, some people look at how he chose to live his life and turn it into a train wreck for the second half ... and the 2 groups don't understand each other at all.

Here, some will see the athlete, one of the best football players in his time, played through injuries, the best double threat QB for about a decade and played for the same team for a long time and won't get past that. And some will see someone who made some dumb decisions (again assuming that was his gf and this was a murder & suicide) and forget about the football.

Ya rich guys in their 30's never date 20 year olds, and when they do there's a good chance they wind up dead.

Do you have any idea how extraordinarily ridiculous that statement is?

Where's the dumb decision in dating someone younger than you? Sure it's probably not a great decision if you're looking for long term stability, but to imply that it increases your chances of being murdered is absurd. There are hundreds of thousands of relationships with age gaps of 15+ years, and shockingly many of them have to do with rich guys and younger women. You're trying to tell me that people in those relationships are more predisposed to being murdered? That's quite the claim.

As for your moral high ground, I'm not sure if you have some sort of 'sanctity of marriage' stance or what, but I don't really see how an affair turns you into someone whose death is any less sad. That's assuming this was even an affair within an intact marriage, there's every possibility that the marriage relationship was all but over. It doesn't exactly seem like there was much in the way of sneaking around going on here.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by valo403

Moral high horse? WTF are you even talking about? I'm on a moral high horse when I'm the one saying that having a relationship with a 20 year old doesn't necessarily mean anything? I think you may have misspoken.

As for your 'love triangle gone wrong' theory, this is why it's a ridiculous claim. I'll use the information from your own source because I know you're familiar with it.

- As you've said, the 'triangle' is supposedly involving McNair, his wife, and Kazemi
- A love triangle gone wrong implies that the 3rd member of the love triangle had something to do with the deaths
- The police have stated that they do not believe that Mechelle McNair had anythign to do with the deaths

Is that clear enough for you?

That something went wrong between Steve McNair and Kazemi would be a pretty apparent claim, your claim has drawn in third parties where there's no evidence that a third party was even involved.

My god. I can't believe this conversation continues. If you want to get into semantics, 'love triangle gone wrong' can mean a multitude of things. I'm not implying his wife had anything to do with the murders, but that doesn't mean, *if* McNair was having an affair, she would not be considered part of the love triangle. She would be an absolutely integral part of it. It's hard not to assume that any conflict in the McNair-Kazemi relationship would have revolved around McNair being, you know, married. Maybe she flipped because he wouldn't leave his family, maybe he flipped because she was going to go public with the affair - nobody knows and I'm not going to speculate, but the point is, I think 9 times out of 10, it has something to do with McNair being married.

Wife + McNair + Girlfriend = 3 = triangle. *If* this ends up being a murder-suicide, I would argue that end result can allow one to label the situation as 'gone wrong.'

As for the moral highhorse comment, no, I didn't misspeak.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by liamenator

My god. I can't believe this conversation continues. If you want to get into semantics, 'love triangle gone wrong' can mean a multitude of things. I'm not implying his wife had anything to do with the murders, but that doesn't mean, *if* McNair was having an affair, she would not be considered part of the love triangle. She would be an absolutely integral part of it. It's hard not to assume that any conflict in the McNair-Kazemi relationship would have revolved around McNair being, you know, married. Maybe she flipped because he wouldn't leave his family, maybe he flipped because she was going to go public with the affair - nobody knows and I'm not going to speculate, but the point is, I think 9 times out of 10, it has something to do with McNair being married.

Wife + McNair + Girlfriend = 3 = triangle. *If* this ends up being a murder-suicide, I would argue that end result can allow one to label the situation as 'gone wrong.'

As for the moral highhorse comment, no, I didn't misspeak.

Doubtful, they've been going on vacations together. This wasn't a secret relationship by any means.

As for the love triangle thing, I guess you assign a different meaning to 'love triangle gone bad' than I do.

But can you explain where my 'moral highhorse' is here? I don't know if you're reading someone else's comments as mine or what, but I don't really see where I've made a judgment on the morality of anyone.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by valo403

But can you explain where my 'moral highhorse' is here? I don't know if you're reading someone else's comments as mine or what, but I don't really see where I've made a judgment on the morality of anyone.

Well, I should say I was making the comment exclusively in regards to your response to my original post - it has nothing to do with the conversation you are having with Flames in 07, when you pointed out that it's "not really a good idea to jump to these kind of conclusions."

I just tire of the knee-jerk reaction a lot of posters throw out there, to label something slanderous, libelous, dangerous or 'not a good idea' when somebody says something even remotely hypothetical. Especially in this case, when I was explicit about the fact that I was not speculating idly, but that I was basing the love-triangle thing as logical based on the bizarre nature of the events.