Michael Jackson suffers cardiac arrest - Dead at the age of 50

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

But not everyone who is a good entertainer is a good musician. Half of what pop stars do is not music, but a means to sell music.

Clearly Micheal Jackson was a good musician. Again, I am only disagreeing with those that think he is the single most influention musician ever. He certainly influenced the way music is sold and marketed more than anyone else though. IMO, his record sales point to that fact more then they point to the quality of the product.

Being a "good musician" is not a quantifiable term and while "experts" attempt to quantify it by measuring such things as ability to write music, skill of an instrument, skill of voice etc. it is still an arbitrary term.

I understand you have a bias against pop music, but to suggest that the single highest selling of records by musical artist (not band) in history is not one of the most influential musicians ever, is ridiculous. Those 28 million records were not videos of his dancing, they were strictly his music, which clearly a lot of people enjoyed.

Having grown up in Europe during the 80's and early 90's I would go as far as to argue that his music inspired the next decade worth of European Music.

Name the single most INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED/INFLUENTIAL musician outside of Michael Jackson.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Actually, yes I did. You quoted me out of context. Go back and read the string of posts that lead up to the post you quoted. I questioned his contribution to music and was told to watch him dance... so I watched and asked; "What does that have to do with music"?

Nonetheless, my last statement stands. His contributions to music and dance have been o'plenty. Though I know they're contributions to parts of those fields that you don't like...

[Reggie Dunlop]

Even better...

Apparently, there are two Michael Jacksons on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and mourners are congregating at the wrong one!

There's one for a Los Angeles Radio DJ, and then there's another one -- unfortunately covered up with scaffolding for the premiere of the "Bruno" movie.

[RedMileDJ]

Well having to be one of the first people in this thread today, and report and post some of the news of Michael Jackson's death, I am shocked at some of the mean spirited comments and "jokes" posted on here.

I'm also not surprised. As one poster said, once you're branded a child molester, abuser, etc, etc, it sticks with you for life. Especially when you're someone like Michael Jackson (constantly in the media spot-light).

I'm also happy to see the amount of positive feed-back in the thread and the out-pouring of support. It's cool to read people's "first contact" with Michael Jackson's music or how he inspired them, etc, etc.

For me...well...I'm a DJ. I can't count how many times I had a bad show going, and all I had to do was put on Billy Jean and the dance floor would fill up again. I own all his albums on CD and even a few on cassette. My wife has Thriller on vinyl. She bought it when she was 8 years old. She used all of her birthday money to buy it.

There were times when I would play Michael Jackson music at my shows, and I would have people come up to me saying things like "hey turn off the child-molester music" or "how can you play this crap?" I'd just look at them, point at the filled dance floor (everyone smiling, bobbing there heads, snapping their fingers, singing and dancing along) and say "that's why I can't turn it off. There's something in this music...and all these people love it."

I'm sad to see Michael Jackson leave us...but I hope he finally has the peace he deserved.

R.I.P King of Pop

edit: couple spelling mistakes

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Being a "good musician" is not a quantifiable term and while "experts" attempt to quantify it by measuring such things as ability to write music, skill of an instrument, skill of voice etc. it is still an arbitrary term.

I understand you have a bias against pop music, but to suggest that the single highest selling of records by musical artist (not band) in history is not one of the most influential musicians ever, is ridiculous. Those 28 million records were not videos of his dancing, they were strictly his music, which clearly a lot of people enjoyed.

Having grown up in Europe during the 80's and early 90's I would go as far as to argue that his music inspired the next decade worth of European Music.

Name the single most INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED/INFLUENTIAL musician outside of Michael Jackson.

If records sold is proportional to influence in music, then Britney Spears in more influential than Bob Marley, the Backstreet Boys are more influential than Led Zeppelin, Eminem is more influential than BB King, the Red Hot Chilipeppers were more influential than Lou Reed, Sum 41 was more influential than the Fugs ... you get me drift.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If records sold is proportional to influence in music, then Britney Spears in more influential than Bob Marley, the Backstreet Boys are more influential than Led Zeppelin, Eminem is more influential than BB King, the Red Hot Chilipeppers were more influential than Lou Reed, Sum 41 was more influential than the Fugs ... you get me drift.

Are you honestly trying to say that Michael Jackson did not have significant influence in music? Honestly?

I am the anti-pop as much as anyone, but there is just no denying the impact that Jackson had on the world of music. There's no denying it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Are you honestly trying to say that Michael Jackson did not have significant influence in music? Honestly?

.

Nope, never said that. I am downplaying how much influence he had over music. His influence on how music is promoted and sold is probably understated though.

[Bibtin Tex]

Why are you guys arguing over this?

He was undeniably a VERY influential person, and he meant a lot to music.

Some of you guys should know when to stop with these lame-ass jokes about him, and if you don't respect him or his contributions to music, then don't post something offensive, just so you can get some "thanks".

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If records sold is proportional to influence in music, then Britney Spears in more influential than Bob Marley, the Backstreet Boys are more influential than Led Zeppelin, Eminem is more influential than BB King, the Red Hot Chilipeppers were more influential than Lou Reed, Sum 41 was more influential than the Fugs ... you get me drift.

Well, see... mass media today is much stronger and diverse than it was in the 60's and 70's... ergo, more distribution = more people introduced to the music = more people influenced and inspired.

Sorry for the bad humor but here it comes... MJ exposed himself to more people especially teens during the 80's and was unrivalled for record sales world wide for the 80's 90's 2000's thus far.

As for Music appreciation, it comes down to an individuals likes and interests. Most people who are music LOVERS would agree that Bob Marley, Led Zeplin, Lou Reed and so on were better musicians but their exposer is limited to north america for the most part.

MJ has influenced culture much more than any of those artists as he benefitted from mass media.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Never thought I'd see the Fugs mentioned on CalgaryPuck. I'm gobsmacked.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What does that have to do with music?

Well, if music doesn't make you move.....

You are seriously missing out on music.

[Hack&Lube]

This thread is turning disgusting and it's making me make judgements on certain CP posters that I don't want to make. If you don't like the man, don't come here to piss on his grave because most of us don't want to read it.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Too bad then..

Plenty of pissing on a man's grave and for good reason.

[nik-]

People like to act like tough guys on the internet Hack, it's just the way it is. I find it odd that these people for getting so bitter about him. I just picture them frothing at the mouth while slamming their keyboards to bang out their posts and I laugh.

[Smell My Finger]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

This thread is turning disgusting and it's making me make judgements on certain CP posters that I don't want to make. If you don't like the man, don't come here to piss on his grave because most of us don't want to read it.

unfortunatly
it has exposed bitterness & hatred. Aside the rest of us that appreciated that witnessed Legendary musical greatness that won't be equalled.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'll drop the music angle. I said what I needed to and am fine if people don't agree.

No one should feel bad about making jokes though. People make jokes on here all the time about ordinary people who suffer misfortune. I don't see why a celebrity should be exempt. Besides, for the past 10 or 15 years, Jackson was at least as influential in pop-culture humour as he ever was in music. We were more likely to hear jokes about him on late night talk shows than we were to see him grab his crotch and squeal.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

As for Music appreciation, it comes down to an individuals likes and interests. Most people who are music LOVERS would agree that Bob Marley, Led Zeplin, Lou Reed and so on were better musicians but their exposer is limited to north america for the most part.

MJ has influenced culture much more than any of those artists as he benefitted from mass media.

I'd disagree strongly on that one particularly in regards to Marley and Zeppelin and their influence on culture. Their music was global.

Sure, Thriller was a great album, Jackson was a great performer and a respite from the crap of Duran Duran and Spnadau Ballet but this was the 80's. Possibly the worst genre of music in recent memory. Just putting it into context.

Young'uns I would hazard a guess even nowadays are more in tune with Marley than MJ. In 50 years time I'd even bet that 3 little birds will still be >= Billie Jean.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'll drop the music angle. I said what I needed to and am fine if people don't agree.

No one should feel bad about making jokes though. People make jokes on here all the time about ordinary people who suffer misfortune. I don't see why a celebrity should be exempt. Besides, for the past 10 or 15 years, Jackson was at least as influential in pop-culture humour as he ever was in music. We were more likely to hear jokes about him on late night talk shows than we were to see him grab his crotch and squeal.

Jokes stop when the person has just died (they can start back up again later).

[Hack&Lube]

I found this on The Atlantic :

"There are two things to say about him. He was a musical genius; and he was an abused child. By abuse, I do not mean sexual abuse; I mean he was used brutally and callously for money, and clearly imprisoned by a tyrannical father. He had no real childhood and spent much of his later life struggling to get one. He was spiritually and psychologically raped at a very early age - and never recovered. Watching him change his race, his age, and almost his gender, you saw a tortured soul seeking what the rest of us take for granted: a normal life.

But he had no compass to find one; no real friends to support and advise him; and money and fame imprisoned him in the delusions of narcissism and self-indulgence. Of course, he bears responsibility for his bizarre life. But the damage done to him by his own family and then by all those motivated more by money and power than by faith and love was irreparable in the end. He died a while ago. He remained for so long a walking human shell.

I loved his music. His young voice was almost a miracle, his poise in retrospect eery, his joy, tempered by pain, often unbearably uplifting. He made the greatest music video of all time; and he made some of the greatest records of all time. He was everything our culture worships; and yet he was obviously desperately unhappy, tortured, afraid and alone.

I grieve for him; but I also grieve for the culture that created and destroyed him. That culture is ours' and it is a lethal and brutal one: with fame and celebrity as its core values, with money as its sole motive, it chewed this child up and spat him out.

I hope he has the peace now he never had in his life. And I pray that such genius will not be so abused again."


Personally I think that Michael Jackson always desperately wanted a childhood, he wanted childhood friends, he wanted to have the chance to be a kid and play. He grew into an adult that loved children and loved surrounding himself with children and built his entire world around trying to make them happy. Neverland wasn't a stranger trying to lure kids into a van with candy, it was a rich man giving candy to kids because he wanted them to smile (and to be his platonic playmates in his own fantasy land in a deranged way). I'm don't have the authority and judgement to say whether or not he crossed certain lines, I don't think many of you have the knowledge to definetely say so either. I don't see how it is any of our business anymore.

Everyone knew he was wierd. Everybody knew he grew more and more grotesque as he got older...but everyone also knows the cultural impact he has had over the years, even to the entire world. I was reading the Iranian blog that often has many twitter and e-mail messages from Iranians protesting and dying right now, and all of a sudden around the time of death, there was a sudden influx of sadness and admiration for Michael Jackson from those young Iranians - who were influenced by his music regardless of the censorship and limitations of the regime they lived under.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Michael Jackson's entire schick was a pale pastiche of innovators like James Brown, Little Richard and Stevie Wonder.

I don't know about that.

All the weirdness and creepiness and craziness aside, he was a famous and talented "entertainer" before he was 10 years old. He wasn't old enough to know how to rip anyone off or even have a schtick. He was good at it like Wayne Gretzky was good at hockey.

Michael Jackson turned into a nut and (I believe) a criminal, but there warn't nobody better at the job when he was doing it.

Pete Rose, Mike Tyson and OJ Simpson were good at their job too.