Iran's Presidential Elections

[HOZ]

Obama condemns unjust violence

Mr Obama said: "The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings, and imprisonments of the last few days.
"I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost."

Keep it up Mr. Pres!

[HotHotHeat]

Obama doing as little as need be is the right course to take. The big story here isn't what the US ISN'T saying, it's what the EU nations ARE saying.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by blankall

In short, what I am trying to say is that I don't see anyone actually interested in freedom ever buying into what the Ayatollah tells them about a speech Obama makes. If they are, then they're probably not ready for the concept of freedom anyway.

Iranians in general don't like America and it has nothing to do with anything an Ayatollah tells them. They have the history of the US supporting a tyrant that oppressed them, plus the recent invasion of a neighboring country with little justification to give them real and understandable reasons to distrust American foreign policy.

It has nothing to do with "hating freedom", it is specifically a distrust of America and the fact that American rhetoric only glancingly reflects American actions. America is not a beacon of freedom to these people, it is a symbol of oppression. It'd be like the North Koreans coming out in support of the NDP in Canada - not exactly the kind of thing that wins hearts and minds.

Originally Posted by Azure

Honestly, while I think the US is to some degree doing the right thing by staying quiet, Obama could speak out and tell the world that the fight against oppression and government control is always something that US will stand behind.

I think he already is saying that - but indirectly - and that is both commendable and sensible. As long as he stays away from overtly taking sides, it makes it hard for the Iranian government to convincingly link the opposition with the Americans or the West in general.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jammies

Iranians in general don't like America and it has nothing to do with anything an Ayatollah tells them. They have the history of the US supporting a tyrant that oppressed them, plus the recent invasion of a neighboring country with little justification to give them real and understandable reasons to distrust American foreign policy.

It also didn't help that the U.S. armed and supported Saddam Hussein during the Iran/Iraq war... including supplying him with intelligence for using chemical warfare on Iran.

[CaptainCrunch]

Watching the news tonight it sounds like the Iranian government is airing confessions from the Rioters that they were encouraged to riot by the Western media. Its amazing what a few hours and a rubber hose will do. How many of those prisoners will suffer from unexplainable fatal skull fractures.

I'm willing to bet that by the end of the week Maziar Bahari will be facing one of their kangeroo courts.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It also didn't help that the U.S. armed and supported Saddam Hussein during the Iran/Iraq war... including supplying him with intelligence for using chemical warfare on Iran.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by jammies

Iranians in general don't like America and it has nothing to do with anything an Ayatollah tells them. They have the history of the US supporting a tyrant that oppressed them, plus the recent invasion of a neighboring country with little justification to give them real and understandable reasons to distrust American foreign policy.

I think Iranians are smart enough to realize what happened in the past is the past and what the current situation in the world actually is.

I think a liberal Iranian recognizes that Barack Obama is not the same American president that supported the Shah of Iran. The same way he hopes that you do not see all Iranians as supporting the views of the Ayatollah.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Sure, but now the U.S. has to live with the consequences. The Iran/Iraq war cost Iran 1,000,000 lives. It makes it hard for Iranians to forgive and forget after that. The Taliban supported a faction that killed a few thousand Americans, and I am sure it will take more than just one generation before Americans will forgive them.

All things considered, it's pretty remarkable that many young Iranians are actually pro-America.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

That's how the Taliban got their start. Not always the smartest policy.

Originally Posted by blankall

I think Iranians are smart enough to realize what happened in the past is the past and what the current situation in the world actually is.

It has nothing to do with intelligence - you don't just "get over" the past, and expecting people to do so is complete fantasy. There's still Irish that resent Cromwell, and that was 350 years ago.

Not every culture is about the *now*. Just because in North America nobody cares what happened longer than a decade or so ago (if that long), doesn't mean every other region of the planet has the same outlook.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by jammies

That's how the Taliban got their start. Not always the smartest policy.



It has nothing to do with intelligence - you don't just "get over" the past, and expecting people to do so is complete fantasy. There's still Irish that resent Cromwell, and that was 350 years ago.

Not every culture is about the *now*. Just because in North America nobody cares what happened longer than a decade or so ago (if that long), doesn't mean every other region of the planet has the same outlook.

My point is that people's attitudes change. Regardless of how people see the US in the negative light, they are still seen as the most powerful country in the world.

To the people protesting in the street having the most powerful country give you a few words of encouragement will hardly be perceived as meddling by those people on the streets.

I think the hardliners might use that as an excuse to demonize the demonstrators, but there will always be an excuse for that. I don't see President Obama being taken in the same light by the people genuinely looking for change.

[blankall]

Let me phrase this a different way. Are the people about to protest really going to get up read teh paper say "Obama, supports us, America is meddling again and we must be wrong" and then decide not to protest that day?

Are comments from Obama going to decrease or increase the number of people protesting?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Obama doing as little as need be is the right course to take. The big story here isn't what the US ISN'T saying, it's what the EU nations ARE saying.

What are they saying?

I missed it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

All things considered, it's pretty remarkable that many young Iranians are actually pro-America.

That is the biggest thing.

This is the new generation protesting here, and like all new generators, they will be more willing to forgive and even WORK with the US and other countries if they get some semblance of freedom.

It is a tricky ordeal though.

[Hack&Lube]

I've also found the Guardian's live blog to be a good place to see up to date information straight from Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/...24/iran-crisis

There are reports right now of a "massacre" in a certain square in Iran. Also, interviews with one of the militiamen brought in by the regime to beat protesters. He was brought in from the rural provinces and paid about $233 CAD / A DAY (more than a fortune for a poor rural middle-eastern) to beat protesters into submission. He said that he wasn't doing it for religious or government supporting purposes - but because it could allow him to buy one or even two wives. Also reports of the Iranian government bringing in Lebanese affiliated with Hezbollah and paying them even more to beat and kill protesters into silence.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Interesting read on Iran. Obama insists no U.S. interference............but other evidence suggests the opposite.
http://www.infowars.com/obama-claims...atently-false/

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Interesting read on Iran. Obama insists no U.S. interference............but other evidence suggests the opposite.
http://www.infowars.com/obama-claims...atently-false/

Get a better source, try again.

[burn_this_city]

Mikey's user title should read: Infowars correspondent

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Get a better source, try again.

You don't like your "news" source to have a big fearmongering advertisement in the middle of the text?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by jammies

Iranians in general don't like America

Sorry, that's total B.S. and that's the media's fault for only ever showing you the demonstrations and flag burning from the hardliners who show up in voice because they had nothing to fear in reprisals from their regime.

Now you see throngs of people who are fighting for their liberal freedoms only to be beaten and killed by those hardliners.

So many Iranians have deep knowledge of the U.S. and the west, and even watch American TV programs and enjoy their culture, fashion, and even government. Heck, last night on the Daily Show, their reporter was in Iran talking to people and they were like: "oh! the Daily Show? Say hello to Jon!"

Perhaps the older generation has deep memories of America and the Shah, but increasingly, the younger generation (and the growing majority of the demographic population) are more liberal and educated and knowledgable of the west and don't even remember those times as they were not yet born.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Get a better source, try again.

There's nothing wrong with the source.