Alberta Healthcare and turning 25

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ice

I suppose I can see the point they're trying to make. However, being pretty conservative myself, I think people who chose to educate themselves, work hard and pay for healthcare should have better options than those who don't. I'm not saying that poor people should be left behind, but if you're willing to pay for superior healthcare, you shouldn't be denied. We have medicare down here for people who can't afford healthcare. And for those who can, and they really like the wait times, we have Kaiser Permanente.

Yeah, most conservatives see it this way. There isn't anything wrong with having the means to get what you want right away. But for some reason, private clinics are outlawed in Canada. Unless it's for stuff like laser eye surgery, dentists, or cosmetic surgery. Anything that's actually life or death is part of medicare. And no matter who you are (except hockey players) you wait in line.

[Ice]

How do hockey players get around it? Do they go to the US?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ice

How do hockey players get around it? Do they go to the US?

No. They take magical ambulances and they arrive in the MRI room mere minutes after a knee on knee mishap. Everyone else waits weeks for an MRI.

[Ice]

So you do have two tiered healthcare.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ice

So you do have two tiered healthcare.

Indeed. Likely the only reason the NDP isn't all over it is because hockey players are a union.

[cSpooge]

Originally Posted by 4X4

No. They take magical ambulances and they arrive in the MRI room mere minutes after a knee on knee mishap. Everyone else waits weeks for an MRI.

actually in Calgary we have a private MRI clinic that they all go to. It's like $750 per scan but you can get it within 2 days.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ice

So you do have two tiered healthcare.

There are private clinics everywhere in Canada. There is nothing that prevents this.

The problem that most US people have is that they think universal health care is an all or nothing proposition.

[Rathji]

When I hurt my knee at work I went to the WCB doctor and he referred me to an MRI. This was at about 2pm, by 6pm I was in the MRI machine getting the scan done at a private clinic.

Money talks.

[NuclearFart]

You know whats really interesting? The most left wing province in the country has the most private clinics per capita. Money will get you the whole gamut from "private GP" offices with <7 day referrals to specialists, pay-for-today imaging clinics (including experimental strength MRI's), <48hour hip replacement factories....the list goes on and on. It's amazing how clueless the media has been, and continues to be.

While Alberta became the lightning rod for 2 tiered health care over the last decade (and stagnated), BC was very quietly progressing behind the scenes to become the most 2 tiered in the country. Define irony.

[cal_guy]

In the United States every hospital is required to provide their emergency services to everyone without regard to their ability to pay under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act or they lose eligibility to receive Medicare funds. Government funding (federal and state) accounts about 45% of total health care. This is approximately $3000 per capita and is more than the $2700 per capita that Canadian governments(federal and provincial) provide while about $900 per capita is funding from private sources.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

In the United States every hospital is required to provide their emergency services to everyone without regard to their ability to pay under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act or they lose eligibility to receive Medicare funds. Government funding (federal and state) accounts about 45% of total health care. This is approximately $3000 per capita and is more than the $2700 per capita that Canadian governments(federal and provincial) provide while about $900 per capita is funding from private sources.

Yes, as a % of GDP, the USA spends a lot on health care. Doesn't really seem to help.

[Ice]

Its pretty typical of our politicians to throw money at something with no real guidelines or even a plan on how more money will improve a situation. They do this with healthcare, education, welfare, etc. I think that's why most Americans are against universal health care. I have no confidence in our goverment to come up with a decent system, and I'm not alone. Our taxes would go up, our out of pocket expenses would go up, our wait times would go up and even less people would likely visit their doctors than do now. I'm pretty certain we would spend a lot more money for inferior healthcare.

[Shazam]

It's not like your private sector health care is doing a better job.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Ice

Its pretty typical of our politicians to throw money at something with no real guidelines or even a plan on how more money will improve a situation. They do this with healthcare, education, welfare, etc. I think that's why most Americans are against universal health care. I have no confidence in our goverment to come up with a decent system, and I'm not alone. Our taxes would go up, our out of pocket expenses would go up, our wait times would go up and even less people would likely visit their doctors than do now. I'm pretty certain we would spend a lot more money for inferior healthcare.

Actually, you already do spend alot more money on inferior health care - while the US has the highest % GDP spent on healthcare (~33% more than the next highest), the actual governement portion of expenditure is almost comparable to other countries - 6.9% US vs 6.7% others - its the private side & you that are paying the extra 33% GDP. Link (page 106 if you don't want to read all 150 pages)

All this to rank 37th for the WHO healthcare rankings? Canada at 30th is not much better.

[Ice]

The WHO rankings are usually dismissed because they are so subjective. Both Canada and the US should rank higher than that. I don't feel my healthcare is inferior to yours. Now, I make a choice to spend a little more money in order to choose my doctor, my hospital. People with HMO's have more limited options. I don't spend a great deal of money out of pocket. When it comes down to it, I like having the choice of how much of my money goes to my medical care. I don't want my government taking that control away from me. If I decide I want a breast reduction, I want it next month, I don't want to wait because its not a life threatening procedure. I also want to choose the surgeon, choose the hospital and choose the date and work it into my schedule. I'm willing to pay for those choices. I don't want to wait for referrals, be forced to choose a surgeon from a certain group, or go the Kaiser route and have them notify me when they have time to fit my procedure in with an appointment for a date when I might not be available.

I know a lot of doctors/surgeons in Southern California who have many patients from foreign countries coming here for procedures and paying cash. Its very common and if U.S. medicine was inferior, nobody would pay that kind of money to come here specifically for treatment.

[NuclearFart]

Indeed you're entitled to your opinion, and my point was more directed towards the amazing inefficiencies of your healthcare system.

Speaking as a physician and patient, the WHO rankings are far from being as "invalid" as we North Americans make it out to be. This is an excuse we babble to protect our egos, and not have to face the facts.

Outside of Ivy league academic centers, US medicine is really not that great, leaving the large majority as average. And you only think you have a choice on how you spend your money on health care. This may be true when you're young and healthy, but when you get older and invariably sicker, health care shifts from elective to necessary. Then you'll realise that it's actually a profit driven corporation making the choice on how to treat you, not the other way around.

And for the record, in Canada you can also get a breast reduction <1 month (and most of the choices you listed) if you're willing to pay for it.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Ice

The WHO rankings are usually dismissed because they are so subjective. Both Canada and the US should rank higher than that. I don't feel my healthcare is inferior to yours. Now, I make a choice to spend a little more money in order to choose my doctor, my hospital. People with HMO's have more limited options. I don't spend a great deal of money out of pocket. When it comes down to it, I like having the choice of how much of my money goes to my medical care. I don't want my government taking that control away from me. If I decide I want a breast reduction, I want it next month, I don't want to wait because its not a life threatening procedure. I also want to choose the surgeon, choose the hospital and choose the date and work it into my schedule. I'm willing to pay for those choices. I don't want to wait for referrals, be forced to choose a surgeon from a certain group, or go the Kaiser route and have them notify me when they have time to fit my procedure in with an appointment for a date when I might not be available.

I know a lot of doctors/surgeons in Southern California who have many patients from foreign countries coming here for procedures and paying cash. Its very common and if U.S. medicine was inferior, nobody would pay that kind of money to come here specifically for treatment.

I can't believe you live in Cali, the land of crushing taxes that makes the Atlantic provinces seem like Hong Kong, and think that you're actually ahead in health care choices.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by 4X4

No. They take magical ambulances and they arrive in the MRI room mere minutes after a knee on knee mishap. Everyone else waits weeks for an MRI.

Or in my circumstances 6 months plus. Made an MRI appointment via Neurosurgeon in Calgary, in Feb earliest I could get in was OCT. I made another appointment with GP in Red Deer, May and had the MRI last week.

Calgary, 8 months plus waiting time. Red Deer, 1 month waiting time.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I can't believe you live in Cali, the land of crushing taxes that makes the Atlantic provinces seem like Hong Kong, and think that you're actually ahead in health care choices.

Maybe its just because I've lived here most of my life, but I don't find us to have crushing taxes.

I don't know that I have more choices, but I know that 100% of the time, I don't wait for an MRI. I have had ultrasounds, MRI's and catscans on 20 minutes notice to the lab. Its been as fast as my physician telling me to go to the lab across town and have an MRI and come back. Piece of cake, and I only pay a 15.00 copay. If my son suffers a knee injury, I'd rather get a diagnosis, have an MRI and schedule surgery within a few days. I see no reason to wait a month for an MRI.

I think it just boils down to what you know and what you're comfortable with. Your medical system is what you know, its what you're used to so its acceptable. Its like you think I have crushing taxes and I don't feel that way, probably because its all I know, and I'm used to it. (Though twice a year I'm quite grateful for prop 13 and my lowest in the nation property tax rate)

[cSpooge]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

Or in my circumstances 6 months plus. Made an MRI appointment via Neurosurgeon in Calgary, in Feb earliest I could get in was OCT. I made another appointment with GP in Red Deer, May and had the MRI last week.

Calgary, 8 months plus waiting time. Red Deer, 1 month waiting time.

I got in for an MRI in under 3 weeks when I had to get one because of my migraines being daily last year.