Problems with crab.....grass.

[CaptainCrunch]

You should try nano-thermite. If its powerfull enough to take down the World Trade Center, it should burn that grass right off of the planet.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I have looked this up online and everything I read tell me that you guys are correct.

So why is it that any time I have tried to put seed where I have applied Roundup the seeds won't germinate, but right beside they seem to do just fine?

Did you put the seed right on top of the dirt? All glyphosate is really is potassium or a couple other kinds of salt. If you load it on you'll end up with alkali soil perhaps, and that just won't fly with seeds.

Did you maybe mix soil sterilant by mistake? If you really, really want to get rid of weeds, just go buy some of that stuff. Nothing will grow there for probably five years. You just have to be really careful with it, since the stuff will leech into the soil, and it will move some over the time it is active.

[Bagor]

So ... why is roundup banned in Ontario?

Because of it's toxicity if it enters aquatic environments?

3 x 3 doesn't seem too big to me to dig up and ~$7 will buy you enough sod for that area. No need to bother with seeds.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

There's nothing wrong with crabgrass. It just has a bad name, that's all. Everyone would love it if it had a cute name, like, uh, elf grass.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by Bagor

So ... why is roundup banned in Ontario?

Because of it's toxicity if it enters aquatic environments?

3 x 3 doesn't seem too big to me to dig up and ~$7 will buy you enough sod for that area. No need to bother with seeds.

So I went to our chem book, and here's what is says...

All of the different kinds of Round-Up (WeatherMax, Transorb HC, Factor 540, R/T 540 and Ultra 2) all contain 540 g/L of glyphosate acid present as potassium salt.

The amount of glyphosate leaching is very low, and it has a very low acute mammalian toxicity. Acute oral LD50 (rats)=4320 mg/kg. Eye irritant. Non-toxic to bees, birds and fish.

So the only reason I can come up with Ontario banning Round-Up is that they're ######ed Easterners who can't see a good thing when it's right in front of them haha.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Slava

not only do I 3rd this comment about it becoming inert when it hits the soil, but a botanist friend of mine thinks that you might be able to drink it. He has given it to mice (or some other rodent) and they're fine.

I don't know that I would go that far (and doubt that he'll ever actually drink it either!), but its pretty safe actually.

I have drank it before. When I ran a landscaping company our plant specialist would always tell the story about how it was totally safe to drink. In the early days the salesmen would drink it to prove how safe it was to use.

I once made the mistake of explaining that to the crew I was running for one job, and they decided to replace the contents of my water bottle with it.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I have drank it before. When I ran a landscaping company our plant specialist would always tell the story about how it was totally safe to drink. In the early days the salesmen would drink it to prove how safe it was to use.

I once made the mistake of explaining that to the crew I was running for one job, and they decided to replace the contents of my water bottle with it.

Really? How was it?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Berger_4_

So I went to our chem book, and here's what is says...

All of the different kinds of Round-Up (WeatherMax, Transorb HC, Factor 540, R/T 540 and Ultra 2) all contain 540 g/L of glyphosate acid present as potassium salt.

The amount of glyphosate leaching is very low, and it has a very low acute mammalian toxicity. Acute oral LD50 (rats)=4320 mg/kg. Eye irritant. Non-toxic to bees, birds and fish.

So the only reason I can come up with Ontario banning Round-Up is that they're ######ed Easterners who can't see a good thing when it's right in front of them haha.

Yeah, I've searched and can't find no info as on what grounds/evidence was presented to the government leading it to be included in the banned list . It's listed as a class 3 pesticide (moderately hazardous). I'm 'presuming' it has to be its toxicity to aquatic organisms (invertebrates, tadpoles) that is the issue or less likely there's issues with its adjuvants. One can only presume they reviewed the literature before reaching their decision.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bagor

So ... why is roundup banned in Ontario?

1) Politicians don't know squat.

2) Politicians are swayed by lobby groups.

3) Most enviro-weenies have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

4) Enviro-weenies know how to lobby, however.

5) Hysteria.

6) Legislation like this make politicians look good.

[Mrs. Rathji]

Crab grass is the least of the problem this year. I have dandelions everywhere in my front yard. 6 1/5 months pregnant and I don't want hand dig them. I can't find one of the tools anywhere either. Driving me crazy!!! And they are spreading!!! Any thoughts????

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Rathji

Crab grass is the least of the problem this year. I have dandelions everywhere in my front yard. 6 1/5 months pregnant and I don't want hand dig them. I can't find one of the tools anywhere either. Driving me crazy!!! And they are spreading!!! Any thoughts????

Don't bother trying to pull them. The roots on those suckers are like two feet long sometimes. So unless you get the whole root, chances are it'll grow back. You (or perhaps somebody who isn't pregnant) should smoke 'em with roundup. But don't go buy the premixed crap from Home Hardware...it's no wonder city folk haven't caught on to the wonders of roundup since they get stuff that's super diluted. Go buy a jug of the unmixed stuff, mix it according to the directions for the highest concentration you should have, and give'er! Use a little sprayer so you'll be able to spray just the dandelion and you'll have all your grass still...oh and you should really try to get them early on in their dandelion career.

If they're <15 cm, a mix of .67 L/ac with a water volume of 20-40 L/ac should be enough. You can always increase the mix if you want though.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Rathji

Crab grass is the least of the problem this year. I have dandelions everywhere in my front yard. 6 1/5 months pregnant and I don't want hand dig them. I can't find one of the tools anywhere either. Driving me crazy!!! And they are spreading!!! Any thoughts????

My friend who is a landscaper uses this stepping tool that sort of looks like that tilling tool - The Claw. Except that the prongs are much closer together and they're straight. He just puts it on top of the dandelion, steps on it (there's a foot pedal thing to drive it into the ground), then pulls it out. The whole weed comes right out inside the prongs. Then there's a plunger on top that you just give a tap and it ejects the weed.
Pretty neat tool. Looks like something you can buy at RONA for ~$30.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Rathji

Crab grass is the least of the problem this year. I have dandelions everywhere in my front yard. 6 1/5 months pregnant and I don't want hand dig them. I can't find one of the tools anywhere either. Driving me crazy!!! And they are spreading!!! Any thoughts????

Killex takes care of them.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by 4X4

My friend who is a landscaper uses this stepping tool that sort of looks like that tilling tool - The Claw. Except that the prongs are much closer together and they're straight. He just puts it on top of the dandelion, steps on it (there's a foot pedal thing to drive it into the ground), then pulls it out. The whole weed comes right out inside the prongs. Then there's a plunger on top that you just give a tap and it ejects the weed.
Pretty neat tool. Looks like something you can buy at RONA for ~$30.

My problem with those tools is that they leave a decent sized hole in your lawn.....it pulls a chunk of dirt out with the weed. I guess you could just push some fresh dirt in the hole though...

[4X4]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

My problem with those tools is that they leave a decent sized hole in your lawn.....it pulls a chunk of dirt out with the weed. I guess you could just push some fresh dirt in the hole though...

The diameter of the hole is ~1". Not much bigger than an aerating hole. And it works pretty good. I hired him to maintain the lawn here at the office (office is a house) and it's fine. I don't even notice the holes. But I do notice that there's no more weeds.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by 4X4

The diameter of the hole is ~1". Not much bigger than an aerating hole. And it works pretty good. I hired him to maintain the lawn here at the office (office is a house) and it's fine. I don't even notice the holes. But I do notice that there's no more weeds.

I'll check that out..........

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Shazam

1) Politicians don't know squat.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Shazam

2) Politicians are swayed by lobby groups.

Agreed .. Monsanto is one of the biggest lobby groups you can find. Your point?

Originally Posted by Shazam

3) Most enviro-weenies have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

Don't know what an 'enviro-weenie' is but you'd think they'd have to put forward some sort of scientific argument to the Ontario Ministry of Environment to justify the ban. You'd think (2) i.e. Monsanto ... one of the biggest lobby organisations on the planet might have opposed the argument.

Originally Posted by Shazam

4) Enviro-weenies know how to lobby, however.

Again, see 2). And agro-chemical doesn't? Monsanto is the master of lobbying. Enviro weenies haven't got a $ or a clue when it comes to them.

Originally Posted by Shazam

5) Hysteria.

Or mistrust? Hysteria regarding what? Detriment to human life or a threat to biodiversity?
I'm not arguing aginst the ban per se but would the hysteria/suspicion be based on proven and fraudulent science from Monsanto? All I'm saying that this is a case in point of public mistrust regarding agro-chemicals.

Originally Posted by Shazam

6) Legislation like this make politicians look good.

See 1. Agreed.

[Shazam]

Do you think using 90% acetic acid as a broad based herbicide in place of Roundup is safer?

Do you think pyrethrum-based insecticides are safe?

Fact is, anything labelled a "x-cide" is dangerous. Perhaps you think that "organic" alternatives are truly "safer"?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Do you think using 90% acetic acid as a broad based herbicide in place of Roundup is safer?

Do you think pyrethrum-based insecticides are safe?

Fact is, anything labelled a "x-cide" is dangerous. Perhaps you think that "organic" alternatives are truly "safer"?

What's your point? Why put words in my mouth? Never said I thought any of the above. Note, I never said either that I thought Roundup was unsafe. Anyways ...No, no, agreed, yes.

It was a simple reply to your assertion that lobbying got it done by commenting that there is no better lobbier out there than Monsanto. Fact of the matter is the ban was put in place based on scientific evidence (I would hope).

I'm just at a loss as to what it was. I've searched and can't find it.

I don't believe it is as simple as you make it out to be where a load of enviro-weenies or whatever they're called outlobbied Monsanto et al.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Berger_4_

Don't bother trying to pull them. The roots on those suckers are like two feet long sometimes. So unless you get the whole root, chances are it'll grow back. You (or perhaps somebody who isn't pregnant) should smoke 'em with roundup. But don't go buy the premixed crap from Home Hardware...it's no wonder city folk haven't caught on to the wonders of roundup since they get stuff that's super diluted. Go buy a jug of the unmixed stuff, mix it according to the directions for the highest concentration you should have, and give'er! Use a little sprayer so you'll be able to spray just the dandelion and you'll have all your grass still...oh and you should really try to get them early on in their dandelion career.

If they're <15 cm, a mix of .67 L/ac with a water volume of 20-40 L/ac should be enough. You can always increase the mix if you want though.

Unless you are a farmer and can provide a legal land description that identifies you live in the country, you can not buy the undiluted stuff. UFA sells it but won't sell it to Calgary residents.