Zeitgeist, 9/11, and Other Conspiracies

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by photon

Hey look, it's tilting, not falling into its own footprint!



All of this has been covered and debunked over and over.

I admit I was totally wrong about you, I had thought that you were open to reason but you are a die-hard Truther in the end.

I'm not going to go through all of this stuff point by point, because ultimately it's futile. It's been done before, you didn't believe it then (or you won't read it) and you won't now, it's a waste of my time and energy, and circular reasoning is unassailable until the individual is willing to break the circle.

If, rather than only reading things which will confirm your bias, you really want to talk to people who are willing to take the time to go over things with a fine toothed comb I would recommend here, there's a large mix of people including "Truthers":

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=91

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

perfectly into its own footprint? didn't its collapse demolish another nearby building and do 1.4 billion dollars worth of damage to another?

Quoting photon and myself cause I'm still curious how this is considered "falling perfectly into its own footprint".

[habernac]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well before you go to bed...

How do you think they demolished these buildings without anyone noticing?

Forget motives or coverups or loose change, how did they manage to fill these buildings with explosives without anyone noticing what "they" were doing?

How do you do that?

Come on, dude. It was Tyler Durden. We all know that.




thanks for the entertaining morning reading here. Pass out the tin foil hats, holy crap.

[moncton golden flames]

the arrogance from both sides astounds me. keep it up boys, you're all making me laugh my arse off.

[icecube]

When you watch the towers fall it definitely looks like a controlled demolition especially wtc 7. And in a lot of video's you can see what plainly looks like demolition squibs popping off in little plumes of smoke in the floors below the free fall. There is also molten steel visible to the naked eye in many video's. Pretty fishy stuff.

[Azure]

The problem is that you can't argue logic with people who believe in these conspiracy theories.

Makes it tough to get a simple point across.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by icecube

When you watch the towers fall it definitely looks like a controlled demolition especially wtc 7. And in a lot of video's you can see what plainly looks like demolition squibs popping off in little plumes of smoke in the floors below the free fall. There is also molten steel visible to the naked eye in many video's. Pretty fishy stuff.

Demolition companies say it would be impossible to put explosives in the buildings without anyone noticing. They estimate that the amount of explosives required to do this would take at least 20 days to set up and that doesn't include the longest wiring job in demo history. Where the hell did the demo wires go?

edit: i misread source actually looks like it would take more like 20+ days to set up

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by Azure

The problem is that you can't argue logic with people who believe in these conspiracy theories.

Makes it tough to get a simple point across.

everybody validates their own reasoning in different ways, so logic is only applied to an individuals thoughts and how they got to that belief, not a group of people who don't agree with you, therefor they aren't 'logical'.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by icecube

When you watch the towers fall it definitely looks like a controlled demolition especially wtc 7. And in a lot of video's you can see what plainly looks like demolition squibs popping off in little plumes of smoke in the floors below the free fall. There is also molten steel visible to the naked eye in many video's. Pretty fishy stuff.

Maybe I just am not as smart as you - but I don't see molten steel in any of the videos.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

everybody validates their own reasoning in different ways, so logic is only applied to an individuals thoughts and how they got to that belief, not a group of people who don't agree with you, therefor they aren't 'logical'.

It has nothing to do with people who disagree with me not being 'logical.'

My opinion is based on what researchers have come up with the past 3-4 years. Popular Science did a huge study on the 9/11 attacks, and Purdue University made detailed analysis about it as well.

Yes, I am going to believe what THEY say over someone like Alex Jones who has a history of making extreme points.

[transplant99]

This was just pure awesomeness.

So many simple questions unable to be answered by the tinfoilers. Its great...literally had me laughing out loud at points.

IIRC...9/11 occurred because...

Someone wanted to collect insurance.

Someone else wanted a reason to invade a country to take their oil which would have been cheaper to buy than try and take (nevermind that country hasnt the most oil over there)....and staged hijacking with US military trained, but foreign operatives, to do so. 9 of which are still alive and kicking somewhere.

Buildings were rigged with explosives that none of the 52,000 people that worked there saw implanted.

They wanted Wall Street up and running...yet demolished a massive part of that area...and that happened only after the stock market took some of its largest single day losses in its history.

It is all partly believable because an ex-WWF wrestler said it was.

Not enough bodies were found in an area that had an airliner drive nose first into the earth at 420 miles an hour followed by an explosion.

The media is contolled by a bunch of the people responsible for all this stuff, therefor we "sheeple" dont know the "truth".

Etc etc etc etc

That about cover it?

Awesome...as i said before.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Demolition companies say it would be impossible to put explosives in the buildings without anyone noticing. They estimate that the amount of explosives required to do this would take at least 36 hours to set up and that doesn't include the longest wiring job in demo history. Where the hell did the demo wires go?

When the buildings were built in the 70's, the joo's had the explosives built into the building plans. They also cleverly disguised massive blocks of explosives as soda pop machines, office chairs and lazy employees.

From that point it was easy, the joo's in cahoots with the Illuminati and the order of Templer Nights approached a young colleged student by the name of George W who was the head of the local chapter of the Skulls and convinced him that America was in danger of loosing its place in the world to the Mooslims and that they needed a president that would be willing to go to war with them to secure America's supply of Oil and destroy the Mooslim threat to the World.

Using insidious planning George W then proceeded to drive multiple companies and a major league baseball team into the dirt, draft dodged and snorted enough cocaine with mind controlling agents to kill an elephant. The Bilderbrieg group financed his escapades and massive election fraud planned by another member of the Skulls Ben Afleck who was pissed that Matt Damon had been given membership in FAG and he hadn't.

The plan worked and W rose to the office of the President of the United states. Executing plan Zebra, George W then wrote 20,000 individual checks for 10 million dollars each as hush money issued out to the members of the pentagon, the NY city police and fire department, the janitors and maintenance workers and the CIA. He then ordered the CIA to secure the required planes and loaded them with explosives, the passangers were liquidated and fed to the saucer people as payment for the whole area 51 misunderstanding.

On that faithfull morning, the U.S.S. New Jersey a battleship that was now a museum fired a single cruise missile as a demonstration to the museum go'ers. Its target the Pentagon. Meanwhile the airplanes loaded with explosives were under control of reverse vampires targeted the World Trade Centers. At the last minute the reverse vampires aimed their planes at the towers then turned into bats and escaped. Meanwhile in a basement, the Illuminati, Templer Nights and Ben Afleck triggered the long dormant explosives in the world trade center.

Another plane flown by members of the Kingdom of Hell a cult founded by Charles Manson crashed in a small field a heroic story to galvanize the American people.

The only failure on the day was that plan jackpot the extermination of Matt Damon failed when Anna Faris hired by Ben Afleck slept with Damon instead of strangling him with her super secret tampon string.

Thus its all tied up in one simple package.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by Azure

My opinion is based on what researchers have come up with the past 3-4 years. Popular Science did a huge study on the 9/11 attacks, and Purdue University made detailed analysis about it as well.

Yes, I am going to believe what THEY say over someone like Alex Jones who has a history of making extreme points.

you can believe whatever institution you like, i'm not here to convince you otherwise.

i for one do not trust very much in this world; the government, the media, big pharma or the military-industrial complex. sure, some magazines and universities have published documents that 'prove' there was no inside job on 9/11. i believe my gut feeling over anything i read or watch, especially ones that try to sell me 100% certainty. i question everything.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When the buildings were built in the 70's, the joo's had the explosives built into the building plans. They also cleverly disguised massive blocks of explosives as soda pop machines, office chairs and lazy employees.

From that point it was easy, the joo's in cahoots with the Illuminati and the order of Templer Nights approached a young colleged student by the name of George W who was the head of the local chapter of the Skulls and convinced him that America was in danger of loosing its place in the world to the Mooslims and that they needed a president that would be willing to go to war with them to secure America's supply of Oil and destroy the Mooslim threat to the World.

Using insidious planning George W then proceeded to drive multiple companies and a major league baseball team into the dirt, draft dodged and snorted enough cocaine with mind controlling agents to kill an elephant. The Bilderbrieg group financed his escapades and massive election fraud planned by another member of the Skulls Ben Afleck who was pissed that Matt Damon had been given membership in FAG and he hadn't.

The plan worked and W rose to the office of the President of the United states. Executing plan Zebra, George W then wrote 20,000 individual checks for 10 million dollars each as hush money issued out to the members of the pentagon, the NY city police and fire department, the janitors and maintenance workers and the CIA. He then ordered the CIA to secure the required planes and loaded them with explosives, the passangers were liquidated and fed to the saucer people as payment for the whole area 51 misunderstanding.

On that faithfull morning, the U.S.S. New Jersey a battleship that was now a museum fired a single cruise missile as a demonstration to the museum go'ers. Its target the Pentagon. Meanwhile the airplanes loaded with explosives were under control of reverse vampires targeted the World Trade Centers. At the last minute the reverse vampires aimed their planes at the towers then turned into bats and escaped. Meanwhile in a basement, the Illuminati, Templer Nights and Ben Afleck triggered the long dormant explosives in the world trade center.

Another plane flown by members of the Kingdom of Hell a cult founded by Charles Manson crashed in a small field a heroic story to galvanize the American people.

The only failure on the day was that plan jackpot the extermination of Matt Damon failed when Anna Faris hired by Ben Afleck slept with Damon instead of strangling him with her super secret tampon string.

Thus its all tied up in one simple package.

If you hit the bullseye, the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate

[mikey_the_redneck]

I have never said in any post that they're weren't holes in the truther movement.
So if we forget about explosives being planted in the building for a second and zoom out a little,............there are still many questions that you can't dismiss.

Like, how come NORAD did not respond to the hijacking with all the time that they had?
Well the official report said that all fighter jets responsible for responding to such an incident were doing live training exercises centered around what? Terrorist attacks including plane hijackings......

Here is a quote;
FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR JESSE VENTURA: Well, you know... At first, again, I wanted to believe 9/11, you know. But the problem I have with 9/11 is just a real simple one. I'm trying to figure out -- and of course they're now attempting to answer it somewhat -- how we could have failed so miserably in not having air defense.
Because if you look back particulalrly -- I don't know if you're familiar -- remember Payne Stewart, the golfer?
LANGLEY: Yeah, that's been brought up a few times on this program...
GOV. VENTURA: He was flying in a private jet. And when they had that mechanical malfunction that apparently killed everyone on board, and the jet was up there flying on automatic pilot; well it only took them a matter of minutes to scramble a fighter jet and have it up there on the wing. And had Mr. Stewart's plane, if it looked like it was going to go down and hit a metropolitan area, of course they would blow it out of the air. But when they saw it was just going to land in a field in Nebraska [sic. - actually South Dakota], why they just let it go down and crash on its own.
And the problem I have with 9/11 is that. Where the heck was our defense? Who was sleeping at the wheel? While all of these planes... I mean, I've been to air traffic control when I was Governor, and you've got a dozen people there looking at these dials, watching every plane in their sector. They know where it's going and they know what direction it's supposed to be going
Now, how is it that these planes were able to be hijacked at half hour intervals, turned directly opposite the way they're supposed to be going and no bells went off, no emergency sirens went off, no fighter jets were scrambled? Just what the hell happened in that area of time?! And that's the part that troubles me about 9/11.
HOST LEN OSANIC: Yeah, I find it troubling that the Pentagon got hit at all.
GOV. VENTURA: Yeah, I mean, here's the Pentagon, the head of our military. How was this plane able to circle the city of Baltimore [sic. - actually Arlington] at least once, picking out a target, and then drive into it, and we didn't have -- nothing up in the air? There wasn't one scrambled fighter jet up there to defend in any way, shape, or form? Wow.

But as far as a controlled demo for towers 1 and 2 go.........no doubt it would take quite an effort to set up a professional controlled demo, I see that now.......
But the 1st responding rescue workers reported multiple explosions in the basement and lobby of the towers shortly after the planes hit amidst all the chaos. Is it possible that a bomb with less sophistication was planted in the basement somewhere to cause enough damage to make sure the towers come down?........

Like I said, maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and to not question it at all is concerning to me.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

If you hit the bullseye, the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate

Well, that would be what happened when the planes hit the WTCs.

According to the numerous structural engineers that studied the events.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well if we can put your silly animations aside there are plenty more holes. I just watched "Loose Change" documentary, and it revealed some of the following;

Blatent mistruths in Loose Change

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com...-of-loose.html

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com...-loose_15.html

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com...-in-loose.html

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com...-loose_17.html

[mikey_the_redneck]

Not all the information I found was from Loose Change Captain. I know there are holes in Loose Change, I was reading about it last night.

[CaptainCrunch]

If your siting guys like Alex Jones and Loose Change, I don't have to do much more debunking.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If your siting guys like Alex Jones and Loose Change, I don't have to do much more debunking.

I read some of those links you posted Captain, and they can be debunked as well. That is a blogger, no different than you and me finding articles to support his/her stance.
He talked about how the follow up explosions that were heard by rescue workers were from the jet fuel. Well, the jet fuel was scattered 80 floors up while the workers were reporting explosions from the lobby and basement area...
.....but I guess the firefighters are foil hat wearing crazies too huh.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Not all the information I found was from Loose Change Captain. I know there are holes in Loose Change, I was reading about it last night.

That's the thing is if you know there are holes in Alex Jones, Zeitgeist, and Loose Change and that they do blatant misrepresentations of facts why would consider the rest of their arguments. If you want to look at someone who at least uses good sources and information for his "conspiracy theories" read Noam Chomsky. It is a much better eye opener than any of this crap. Even then you have to understand that he doesn't know the whole story of the events he discusses, but he does point out a lot of terrible things the US gov't has done.

Hell I'll even point you to a video that Chomsky discusses why he doesn't think it was an inside job. This is a guy who takes every chance he gets to take a stab at American policy and he doesn't even think that it was an inside job. Pretty much says it would have been impossible to do:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/66473/