The Blue Jays: 2009 Season Thread - Page 39 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

EN FUEGO · 06-10-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Don't discount Scutaro and some of those other bottom guys in the order. Seems like the Rolen/Overbay/Barajas whoever else is in there have been on base than a guy like Scutaro is able to get on.

Scutaro actually leads all of baseball in times on base (113). Having that leadoff hitter get on is so important. When you look back to the last time the Jays offense really caught fire in early '06, I believe Reed Johnson was on fire in the OBP category as well. Make the pitcher work from the stretch and out of their comfort zone. I've always loved Scutaro's demeanor on the field, best addition JP's made in a while. And to think of how small a pickup it seemed at the time.

Sylvanfan · 06-10-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EN FUEGO

And to think of how small a pickup it seemed at the time.

I remember panning the move saying that it was just another redundant part with McDonald already there. Turned out Scutaro was the really smart acquisition, and that David Eckstein was the poor one. Credit to Scutaro though he got a chance due to the injuries last year to play a lot early on and really took it to the point where he has an every day job. Proved me wrong in a big way.

Gozer · 06-10-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Don't discount Scutaro and some of those other bottom guys in the order.

*nodding*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Rios and Wells hit infield fly's

I wonder if its genius or its pathetic that our two weakest hitters are in the 3/4 spot. On one hand, if Overbay and Rolen were moved up to 3/4 then IMO their numbers would surely drop (from pitchers treating them different), but Wells and Rios wouldn't necessarily do better lower in the order ('cause they suck).

This way, the pitcher is focusing on players with name recognition that suck, and not focusing on Overbay or Rolen.

habernac · 06-10-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Really the infielders on the Jays are all having decent starts to the season except for Rolen in the power department. But so long as he's getting on base, and playing top notch defence the Jays can get by without him putting up big power numbers.

what was his injury just before he became a Jay? Shoulder or something? I think his power is gone for good. But as you say, the guy just gets on base all the time so I'll definitely take it.

Gozer · 06-10-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habernac

what was his injury just before he became a Jay? Shoulder or something? I think his power is gone for good. But as you say, the guy just gets on base all the time so I'll definitely take it.

He had three surgeries in St Loius on the same shoulder, and then another after half a year in Toronto (going from memory). The Jays never would have landed such a terrific player in a trade for Glaus if it wasn't for the huge injury factor. He re-learned how to swing (parents, don't teach your kids to swing with their elbows up!) and he's doing great. http://www.ghostrunneronfirst.com has a graph up that shows the speed of the ball of each player's bats, and Rolen is above the league average.

Fun quick read: http://www.humandchuck.com/2009/06/t...ed-quotes.html

Gozer · 06-10-2009, 03:59 PM

David Dellucci is your newest Jay!

Gozer · 06-10-2009, 04:22 PM

http://umpbump.com/press/2009/06/08/...am-al-edition/

UmpBump does a fun piece on who AL teams would pick if they could get rid of one of their players (and contracts). Angels, Gary Matthews, Boston, Julio Lugo, and for the Jays, Kevin Millar!?

bluejays · 06-10-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

http://umpbump.com/press/2009/06/08/...am-al-edition/

UmpBump does a fun piece on who AL teams would pick if they could get rid of one of their players (and contracts). Angels, Gary Matthews, Boston, Julio Lugo, and for the Jays, Kevin Millar!?

I thought the guy justified himself to be honest. Wells, contract and all would be my first, but Millar over the long hard season is not going to do anything offense or defence-wise. He has more of a coaching roll.

JiriHrdina · 06-10-2009, 06:09 PM

BJ Ryan? That's gotta be the pick for the Jays.

Da_Chief · 06-10-2009, 06:44 PM

Rios, Wells, Ryan either one of them.

flames_fan_down_under · 06-10-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

BJ Ryan? That's gotta be the pick for the Jays.

Can't disagree with that, at least you know Wells and Rios have the ability to get hot, while Ryan is...well he just doesn't have the stuff anymore.

Edit: Not to say that I don't appreciate the talent the Ryan had, it's kind of sad, for me, to see what injuries can do to a pitcher.

Sylvanfan · 06-10-2009, 06:56 PM

I can understand the reasoning that Millar may be the least useful guy on the team. But in terms of contract that you want to get rid of, Vernon Wells and it's not even close. That annual salary is one thing, but the number of years left that he earns that salary...yikes.

flames_fan_down_under · 06-10-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

http://umpbump.com/press/2009/06/08/...am-al-edition/

UmpBump does a fun piece on who AL teams would pick if they could get rid of one of their players (and contracts). Angels, Gary Matthews, Boston, Julio Lugo, and for the Jays, Kevin Millar!?

Can't disagree with Lugo, that guy has been a disaster. Spousal abuse, terrible fielding percentage, about time Epstein had an error in judgment.

flambers · 06-11-2009, 08:29 AM

Has to be Wells, Ryan is okay as his contract is nearly over. Wells on the other hand has a long time to go.....

As for Millar this might be the Jays best contract, the guy is a great presence on the team and has played his role perfect.....

JayP · 06-11-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Has to be Wells, Ryan is okay as his contract is nearly over. Wells on the other hand has a long time to go.....

As for Millar this might be the Jays best contract, the guy is a great presence on the team and has played his role perfect.....

Best contract?

A .700 OPS is far from perfect, especially for a guy playing 1B and the occasional DH.

Worst contract has to be Wells or Ryan. Rios isn't even in the argument. If he's playing CF like he should be his production is actually fairly good for the position.

Wells is in the argument for worst MLBer this season and Ryan's not much better.

Jason14h · 06-11-2009, 12:55 PM

After the incident with Rios swearing at the fans, if I lived in Toronto I would boo this guy every at bat until he quit.

flambers · 06-11-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

Best contract?

A .700 OPS is far from perfect, especially for a guy playing 1B and the occasional DH.

Worst contract has to be Wells or Ryan. Rios isn't even in the argument. If he's playing CF like he should be his production is actually fairly good for the position.

Wells is in the argument for worst MLBer this season and Ryan's not much better.

Millar is on a minor league deal when he was signed the guy was a questionable player even to make the team? The guy is a reserve player who is performing much better than expected IMO.

Its a shock he has done this well.

EN FUEGO · 06-11-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Millar is on a minor league deal when he was signed the guy was a questionable player even to make the team? The guy is a reserve player who is performing much better than expected IMO.

Its a shock he has done this well.

I wouldn't use the word shock, and his defence and speed are a little lacking. Now that Overbay's coming around JP needs to bring in a DH that can bat cleanup. As I've said before, Wells will come around. He started the year with an injury, and I think he's still battling it. He earned the contract he signed with his years of solid play......as long as he comes through down the stretch this year all will be forgiven. Remember when he hit the walk-off off of Rivera to chants of "MVP, MVP"? Hell, if I told you at the beginning of the year his average would be 50 points higher and almost double the homeruns of Boston's "cleanup hitter" what would you say?

(My attempt at a glass half-full Wells view anyway)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

After the incident with Rios swearing at the fans, if I lived in Toronto I would boo this guy every at bat until he quit.

This has been beaten to death. That fan was an ass and Rios stooped to his level. Then again if I had 5 K's and then had a "fan" heckling me outside I don't think I'd be as kind as he was. Give the guy a break, he has no history of this kind of stuff. The funny thing is the same people piling on him on other boards for this stuff would probably trade him for a Milton Bradley type of headcase.

Gozer · 06-11-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EN FUEGO

As I've said before, Wells will come around. He started the year with an injury, and I think he's still battling it. He earned the contract he signed with his years of solid play......as long as he comes through down the stretch this year all will be forgiven. Hell, if I told you at the beginning of the year his average would be 50 points higher and almost double the homeruns of Boston's "cleanup hitter" what would you say?

His current OPS+ is 86, that's awful regardless of contract. Bautista is at 107 OPS+ and wouldn't be a downgrade defensively. I'm not asking Vernon to lead the team in slugging or even average, but batting cleanup behind the league leader in on base percentage and hits and having his RBI numbers is obscene.

(OPS+ is a measure of batting ability - 100 is average)

EN FUEGO · 06-11-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

His current OPS+ is 86, that's awful regardless of contract. Bautista is at 107 OPS+ and wouldn't be a downgrade defensively. I'm not asking Vernon to lead the team in slugging or even average, but batting cleanup behind the league leader in on base percentage and hits and having his RBI numbers is obscene.

(OPS+ is a measure of batting ability - 100 is average)

I agree that its obscene, but Cito knows what we all know, that Vernon has a track record of going on some hot streaks Bautista knows nothing about. Has Bautista hit 3 home runs, 2 off Josh Beckett in the same game at any point in his career? Noone will argue Wells hasn't struggled, but it's not like he's on "the interstate" or anything. He had a double and a triple the other night, 2 weeks of drilling the ball like that and his average and power numbers could be decent. Hell, he scored 4 runs in the last 2 games. Maybe put him 2nd, Lind 4th, and Hill 5th?