Send the homeless to prison....

[K1LLswitch]

....and yes, I'm serious.

But please read before responding. I've been wanting to post this for a while to see what peoples thoughts are, so here goes. Please forgive the generalizations....don't want this to turn into a debate over stereotypes; more of a "how our public funds are spent" question.

Person A is a serial rapist (or whatever crime - don't care). Gets caught, convicted, and sentenced to 15 years in prison. With this comes the following:
- shelter and a place to live, in relative comfort
- 3 decent meals a day
- the opportunity to get some training and return to society with new useful skills
- access to mental help, career and life counseling

This person will then spend 8 years in prison, getting out on bail because of good behavior, and a couple years off for "double time" serve prior to sentencing. Now remember, this is a person who has:
- potentially ended or seriously F*ed up lives and relationships and caused pain that will last a dozen people their whole life
- now has the potential to repeat offend, ruining more lives and getting sent on another taxpayer funded retreat.

Person B is a normal guy, maybe a little lower on the IQ side of things. They don't have close connections with friends or family, and decide to take a job across the country to start a new life. Something happens (lost job, bad relationship, stress etc.) that causes this person to turn to drink/drugs/mental illness and they slip through the cracks, missing a few rent payments and ending up on the street. This comes with the following:
- no where to live, get clean, store your stuff or stay warm. Without a place to store your stuff, you sell it / lose it etc. without stuff, you look dirty and can't get a job.
- without a job, you can't afford food or a warm place to sleep
- if you are lucky, you get a soup-kitchen meal or two a day, and maybe a mattress on the floor of a shelter
- picking cans and food out of the trash, and the indignity of begging for spare change
- chance you'll get stabbed by some other drunk over $5 or pass out in the winter and end up losing a limb to frost bite

If this person is REALLY lucky, they wil get into a program run by volunteers / charities / churches and get a 2nd chance with some volunteer counseling and life skills teaching.

SO, your choices are:
a) Give the rapist a lethal injection and send one person per year to "prison" to get the help they need and the training / coaching to start a new
b) leave the system as it is.

Don't want this to start out as a debate for/against capital punishment, but given enough $$$ to spend on a taxpayer funded retreat for a year, who do you pick?

Thanks,

K1LLswitch

[RougeUnderoos]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build housing for the poorest people and give them access to counselling and training and also a place to store their stuff?

That way, you don't have to pay for the cages and the armed guards. And that poison for the criminals ain't free.

[iggypop]

nm

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I am just glad that the only criminals in prison are serial rapists apparently or people who deserve to die... steal a car - you die. Deal drugs - you die... Past that prison really isn't known as a place in which people really have a great quality of life and I would bet that it is just as easy to find drugs inside a prison as it is to find drugs outside of the prison walls. The meals suck, you have no idea what bail is and the waiting time for an execution is way longer than 8 years in countries where they have capital punishment.

Lastly what percentage of the prison population is made up of the homeless population that has mental disorders - not making excuses or anything but maybe that is why they are in prison in the first place

Weird topic.

[Eric Vail]

I don't know how this couldn't turn into a discussion on capital punishment. What else is there to discuss?

[Resolute 14]

I say we just ban homeless people. We can send them to Edmonton along with the dogs.

[Jason14h]

Send them to the States! I hear there are lots of homes available there!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build housing for the poorest people and give them access to counselling and training and also a place to store their stuff?

Agreed. Heck even arrange some sort of work program where they can do some sort of task to earn their keep.

The problem is the underlying issues of homelessness. The reason why most of us aren't homeless is we have the skills to keep us employed and sheltered. When I recently lost my job I had it down to "Plan C" which was to start flipping burgers or something.

There was a DS9 episode that dealt with 21st century homelessness. Basically in the near future "sanctuary districts" were setup to house and feed the homeless; and guards were in place to keep people inside, and supposedly to keep order. The thing was it didn't solve the problem- find a place in society for these people.

And that's what these people need- a place for them. Some people with mental illness and disabilities manage to find their place. We often see the middle aged man with Downs Syndrome cleaning tables at McDonalds. I believe the gov't pays for part of his salary. But the big thing is that person gets to feel like a person- holds down a job and an apartment; and is able to feel like he has a place in society.

[MelBridgeman]

send dogs and bears too

[Frequitude]

Exterminate them all.


This sounds like a terrible use of public funds. Why not just do this:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build housing for the poorest people and give them access to counselling and training and also a place to store their stuff?

That way, you don't have to pay for the cages and the armed guards. And that poison for the criminals ain't free.

[Phaneuf3]

Instead of prisons lets just round up all homeless people, criminals, bears, dogs and teachers and put them into an arena. Last one standing gets to move to edmonton.

[CaptainCrunch]

I vote that we put this guy in charge of the roundup

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I vote that we put this guy in charge of the roundup

Second'd. Motion carried.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build housing for the poorest people and give them access to counselling and training and also a place to store their stuff?

That way, you don't have to pay for the cages and the armed guards. And that poison for the criminals ain't free.

Cheaper by orders of magnitude. Prisons are one of the most expensive places to construct, every screw, every piece of furniture is all custom designed just for prisons.

And that's not to mention that the cost of executing someone is FAR more then keeping that person in prison for life.

So, the rapist costs more to take care of under the proposed plan, and the homeless person costs the system far more as well.

Keeping the prisoners in prison and building proper low cost housing and services for the homeless would be FAR cheaper.

[troutman]

My community would be different without them. Every day, they faithfully collect all the bottles and cans in the neighbourhood. One colorful character wears about 8 cowboy hats (one on top of the other), and a pink baseball cap on top.

[jeremywilhelm]

So you would kill someone who might be wrongfully convicted? Do you know how corrupt and horrendously inept the legal system is?

[metallicat]

Well DESS has one vote for Mayor.

[Clever_Iggy]

I read (somewhere) that a huge percentage of the homeless are suffering from mental disorders and are unable to function as a result. Here in Bay Area, there are huge numbers of homeless people on the streets. This can not only be attributed to the mild climate, but also the fact that years ago two nearby mental institutions were closed due to budget cut backs (I think as far back as Regean) and the area was flooded with former patients.

Increase access to psychiatric and psychological treatment - drugs, counseling, etc... would have a major effect on the number of homeless. Couple that with job training and general life skills (how to budget money, get a job, etc...) and I think the results would be better than "prison."

But, that requires tax dollars (and lots of them) which I'm not willing to fork over... so it's unrealistic.

[CaptainCrunch]

It has to balance out sympathy to the homeless versus tax dollars. How many people floated here from their home towns when time was good only to realize that the cost of living in Calgary was extremely high for someone working for minimum wage.

I'm all for taking care of the homeless especially if their mentally ill, however, if we're going to build cheap or free housing the last thing that we want to do is make it appealing so that all of the homeless from other cities flow here in order to take advantage of this. Frankly we're not here to solve other cities homeless problems.

I don't know how to solve it, but to me a time based visa system could be implemented for people that come to Calgary without jobs asking for social assistance. Give them 3 months to find work and get on their feet, and if they don't then you give them a bus ticket home.

For the mentally ill, maybe transfer them to facilities in the cities or regions that they come from.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I say we just ban homeless people. We can send them to Edmonton along with the dogs.

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

send dogs and bears too

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Exterminate them all.

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Instead of prisons lets just round up all homeless people, criminals, bears, dogs and teachers and put them into an arena. Last one standing gets to move to edmonton.

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Well DESS has one vote for Mayor.

I believe the DESS references are a little funnier when only one person does it per thread.