Basement Development & Associated Costs

[KTrain]

My wife and I are looking to develop our basement this summer. We have a newer home in McKenzie built in 2006. The basement walls have been framed and insulated. The space is about 800 sq/feet.

I'm looking to get an idea on how much it will cost to get the electrical done. I'm willing to try my hand at a lot of the other stuff but electrical is not something I want to mess around with. We'd need the sockets, switches and recessed lights done.

I'd probably want someone to finish off the ceiling as well. More than likely we'd want it drywalled and then a knocked down finish.

We're putting in one guest room, a full bath, a small storage/furnace area and the rest would be open (with small bar).

Any ideas on costs for these two things? Anyone on CP do either of these?

[troutman]

You will need a Building Permit:

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...evelopment.pdf

[ken0042]

The most expensive thing there will be the mudding and finish of the ceiling. I had started to look at getting the mudding done for my basement and was shocked at the prices people wanted. Having said that, now that I'm doing it myself I do have a new appreciation of why the cost was so high.

As for the electrical, you should have an idea of how many plugs, switches, and light fixtures you want, and who will be supplying the fixtures. Light fixtures can go from $10 each all the way up to several hundreds, so that is a huge margin there.

Also is your current basement outside wall framed with steel studs or wood? Once again, different wire needed for steel studs.

[Shazam]

Electrical is really, really straightforward. Really. You can get someone to wire up to the panel, but this is really easy too, actually.

[DESS]

I did the same thing in 2005, with about the same square footage - one bedroom, one family room and one bathroom, as well as a storage room/furnace room.

I paid a guy to do it and it was only $24,000. He did a good job. Other quotes were as high as $40,000 for the same thing.

Don't bother with permits. You'll just have to pay more in taxes every year on top of the cost of the permits.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Electrical is really, really straightforward. Really. You can get someone to wire up to the panel, but this is really easy too, actually.

I have to second this. We did our basement two years ago and me, a buddy and a few cases of beer did the electrical. We bought a wiring guide from home depot and laid the whole thing out on the floor and then installed it piece by piece. After you get it all in (before you connect it to the source) you call the city inspector and he comes to check out if there are any major issues with the job you did. Then he approves it and you can connect to your main panel. The only deficiency we had was about some of the spacing of the staples being over the allowable.

Trust me, if I had to do my basement again I would be all over the electrical and the mudding would have been done by a pro.

[KTrain]

You will need a Building Permit:

Yup. That debate is ongoing in my home.

Also is your current basement outside wall framed with steel studs or wood? Once again, different wire needed for steel studs.

Yes, the exterior walls are framed (wood) and insulated.

Electrical is really, really straightforward. Really. You can get someone to wire up to the panel, but this is really easy too, actually.

I'm sure it is straight forward but when it comes to stuff that can start fires I want to make sure I have nothing to do with it.

paid a guy to do it and it was only $24,000. He did a good job.

That's another debate I'm having with myself. Hiring someone to do it would make things easier and open my time to other things but on the other hand I do enjoy the work/sense of accomplishment that comes with working on your own renos. I'm sure I'll be pulling out my hair later though.

[Shazam]

You can start a fire by improperly screwing in a light bulb.

Whatever the case, I highly, highly insist you get the electrical code book (it's green) at, well, everywhere. You still need to know if the electricians you hire know what they're doing.

[Tower]

Originally Posted by troutman

You will need a Building Permit:

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...evelopment.pdf

You will need to ask permission and pay for that permission to renovate your own property..... Ya, that isn't debatable.

Be polite to your neighbors. Use good edict and just build it.

[ken0042]

With respect to the permit/no permit debate- let me add the single most important reason for getting one- resale.

Let's say 5 years from now you are looking to sell, and it happens to be a bit of buyer's market. You accept a good offer based on an inspection. Now the inspector finds the basement never had it's permits pulled, and the buyer wants thousands off to get it back up to code.

Never mind the insurance
Never mind the fact that its a good idea to have somebody else double check your work on "things that can start fires."

Yes, it's a hassle. Yes, it will add a few dollars to your monthly tax bill. But I still think it's a good idea.

[onetwo_threefour]

My thanks to troutman was somewhat tongue-in-cheek I'll have to admit...

But definitely, ignore Tower, get a permit. In this case it's actually easier to ask permission than to beg forgiveness.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by DESS

Don't bother with permits. You'll just have to pay more in taxes every year on top of the cost of the permits.

As someone who works with various codes on a daily basis this is quite possibly the single most ######ed thing I have ever read.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by ken0042

With respect to the permit/no permit debate- let me add the single most important reason for getting one- resale.

Let's say 5 years from now you are looking to sell, and it happens to be a bit of buyer's market. You accept a good offer based on an inspection. Now the inspector finds the basement never had it's permits pulled, and the buyer wants thousands off to get it back up to code.

Never mind the insurance
Never mind the fact that its a good idea to have somebody else double check your work on "things that can start fires."

Yes, it's a hassle. Yes, it will add a few dollars to your monthly tax bill. But I still think it's a good idea.

I sold my house with an unpermitted basement reno. It wasn't an issue and this is a buyer's market.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

My thanks to troutman was somewhat tongue-in-cheek I'll have to admit...

But definitely, ignore Tower, get a permit. In this case it's actually easier to ask permission than to beg forgiveness.

My case was resolved - turns out the buyers were aware there was no building permit when they waived conditions.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by ken0042

With respect to the permit/no permit debate- let me add the single most important reason for getting one- resale.

Let's say 5 years from now you are looking to sell, and it happens to be a bit of buyer's market. You accept a good offer based on an inspection. Now the inspector finds the basement never had it's permits pulled, and the buyer wants thousands off to get it back up to code.

Never mind the insurance
Never mind the fact that its a good idea to have somebody else double check your work on "things that can start fires."

Yes, it's a hassle. Yes, it will add a few dollars to your monthly tax bill. But I still think it's a good idea.

I never bothered with one when I did my last basement and had no problems selling the place either. Electricity is so easy as has been said. Seems like the scary part but it's beyond easy. Plumbing is where I drew the line. I got an apprentice guy in who was way less than the going rate and paid cash as well. Offering cash is the way to go. Plenty of guys around these days that will do stuff for cash while they look for their next job. I'd skip the permit.

[ken0042]

Just keep in mind that I didn't say that every buyer will have an isse with there not being a permit in place. But if I'm buying a place that had the basement done, I'd be looking for that permit. So you take your chances.

Here's something maybe one of our lawyers can answer, if I sell my house with and unpermitted basement, and a year later an electrical fire kills the new owner, can his family now go after me for the work I did wrong?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Here's something maybe one of our lawyers can answer, if I sell my house with and unpermitted basement, and a year later an electrical fire kills the new owner, can his family now go after me for the work I did wrong?

That is an interesting question that we have been discussing. The standard Real Estate Contract contains warranties from the vendor that the building is in compliance with all municipal by-laws etc. There is a two year limitation period in Alberta.

Originally Posted by KTrain

We're putting in one guest room, a full bath, a small storage/furnace area and the rest would be open (with small bar).

Go big or go home!

[Potty]

Consider a T-Bar ceiling in the basement. It is so nice to have easy access to plumbing/electrical in the ceiling in the event you make any future changes to your house, both in the basement or upstairs.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by troutman

My case was resolved - turns out the buyers were aware there was no building permit when they waived conditions.

Funny enough, the next day, I had buyer's who were nervous about waiving conditions regarding an unpermitted basement wall. The wall had no electrical, gas, or plumbing in it, it was just framing and drywall separating the laundry area from the rest of the undeveloped basement, but the City confirmed that a permit was required, and my buyers forced the Seller to agree to get it permitted. Luckily, one side of the wall wasn't drywalled, so it wasn't going to be a big deal for the
Seller to get it inspected, but this could have been a real pain for the Seller or he might have lost the sale.