Famous abortionist killed on his way into church - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

MrMastodonFarm · 05-31-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We need a disgusted button on this board sometimes. This is over the line to me.

It's called the report button.

MrMastodonFarm · 05-31-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

It's funny how often pro-lifers are also pro-death penalty. All life is sacred!

It's also funny how pro-choice people are also anti-death penalty.

MrMastodonFarm · 05-31-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Its funny how pro-choicers are anti-death penalty. All life is sacred.

Dang it all to hell.

Devils'Advocate · 05-31-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

It's also funny how pro-choice people are also anti-death penalty.

Well there is quite a difference there.

People on death row are DEFINITELY people.
Fetuses on the other hand may or may not be people.

To those on the pro-life side, they definitely see fetuses as people due the human right to life.

To those that are pro-choice, they allow for the possibility that the fetus is not due the human right to life as it may not yet be considered "a person".

So there is no hypocrisy to me being part of Amnesty International, which is very much against the death penalty AND being pro-choice. I don't see this as a human rights issue as I don't see just formed fetuses as humans.

However, I do see a hypocrisy in saying that a fetus is due protection against death due to the human right to life and prisoners are not due the same right. The only way that you can reconcile the two is by saying that 100% of the men on death row are guilty of murder, and by having committed murder you no longer qualify as being a human being. I don't know how much water that carries for you, but for me that's bunk.

arloiginla · 05-31-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

http://www.kansas.com/news/breaking/story/833730.html

Many have probably heard of this guy...Tiller the Killer ..as he's often referred to.

I am no fan of abortion, think it should be legal but restricted, but this only confirms my longstanding theory that pro-life activists are the scum of the earth.

Unbelievable.

Generalization

MoneyGuy · 05-31-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

I'll be the unpopular one. I know people feel strongly about this topic and I usually refrain from these discussions because people do love to attack each other in discussions like this. But here we go:

(rest deleted for brevity)

I agree with every word of your post except I'm anti-death penalty.

I'm totally opposed to abortion. I feel it's a life from the moment of conception and it's wrong to take a life. However, I have no support for these militants who kill abortionists.

Displaced Flames fan · 05-31-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arloiginla

Generalization

In fairness, yes it is.

At the same time, the activity I described is extremely prevalent and probably the rule rather than the exception.

Displaced Flames fan · 05-31-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Well there is quite a difference there.

People on death row are DEFINITELY people.
Fetuses on the other hand may or may not be people.

To those on the pro-life side, they definitely see fetuses as people due the human right to life.

To those that are pro-choice, they allow for the possibility that the fetus is not due the human right to life as it may not yet be considered "a person".

So there is no hypocrisy to me being part of Amnesty International, which is very much against the death penalty AND being pro-choice. I don't see this as a human rights issue as I don't see just formed fetuses as humans.

However, I do see a hypocrisy in saying that a fetus is due protection against death due to the human right to life and prisoners are not due the same right. The only way that you can reconcile the two is by saying that 100% of the men on death row are guilty of murder, and by having committed murder you no longer qualify as being a human being. I don't know how much water that carries for you, but for me that's bunk.

Vaible fetuses aren't people?

Too much grey in your nice little black and white wrap up there.

peter12 · 05-31-2009, 08:37 PM

Put me in the pro-life moderate camp along with being rather strongly against the death penalty. It is somewhat funny that people seem to compare these two views as they don't have anything in common besides the issue of "life," whatever that is anyway.

Abortion involves the elimination of a human being that does not have the ability to protest its own murder. Often abortions are done for selfish reasons, like the mother does not want to have a child. If there are economic or health issues, then certainly abortion should be a viable option. It always has been.

The death penalty, like it or not, is decided in a courtroom where the defendant has the right to defend himself to a jury of his peers and a judge. Completely different.

mikey_the_redneck · 05-31-2009, 08:44 PM

I am pro-choice and pro-death penatly...........

Devils'Advocate · 05-31-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Vaible fetuses aren't people?

I'll take Obama's answer and say that determining when a fetus becomes a person is beyond my pay scale. I don't know when a fetus becomes a "person". You seem to know for me. That's good. I'm glad it's not above your pay scale.

peter12 · 05-31-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I'll take Obama's answer and say that determining when a fetus becomes a person is beyond my pay scale. I don't know when a fetus becomes a "person". You seem to know for me. That's good. I'm glad it's not above your pay scale.

That's called passing the buck and it means you aren't smart.

Displaced Flames fan · 05-31-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I'll take Obama's answer and say that determining when a fetus becomes a person is beyond my pay scale. I don't know when a fetus becomes a "person". You seem to know for me. That's good. I'm glad it's not above your pay scale.

Of course you will.

I would think that if a fetus can survive outside the womb without mechanical help it's pretty obviously a person...or alive...however the pro-choicers are wording it these days. Pretty obvious isn't it?

Non-theists love science but they sure do ignore it when it comes to when a fetus becomes 'alive'.

Convenient.

Devils'Advocate · 05-31-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

That's called passing the buck and it means you aren't smart.

"Admitting that you don't know something" = "means you aren't smart". Gotcha.

DFF: I didn't say anything about the fetus being alive. I said "when it becomes a person". The fetus is alive as soon as it has a heartbeat, but whether it is a human life deserving of the rights given a person is a matter of opinion. I don't think science has the answer as to when a fetus "becomes a person" as that is more a philosophical question than a scientific one. Unless you have scientific proof that a fetus is granted a soul after 3 weeks, 7 days. I'm not aware of that study, so I'd like to see it if you have it.....

peter12 · 05-31-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

"Admitting that you don't know something" = "means you aren't smart". Gotcha.

DFF: I didn't say anything about the fetus being alive. I said "when it becomes a person". The fetus is alive as soon as it has a heartbeat, but whether it is a human life deserving of the rights given a person is a matter of opinion. I don't think science has the answer as to when a fetus "becomes a person" as that is more a philosophical question than a scientific one. Unless you have scientific proof that a fetus is granted a soul after 3 weeks, 7 days. I'm not aware of that study, so I'd like to see it if you have it.....

By pretending that you "do not know" you are granting yourself the pleasure of ignorance, while at the same time condoning abortion. At least have the courage and the intelligence to admit that abortion is murder or very close to it. That is still a somewhat defensible point.

Displaced Flames fan · 05-31-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

"Admitting that you don't know something" = "means you aren't smart". Gotcha.

DFF: I didn't say anything about the fetus being alive. I said "when it becomes a person". The fetus is alive as soon as it has a heartbeat, but whether it is a human life deserving of the rights given a person is a matter of opinion. I don't think science has the answer as to when a fetus "becomes a person" as that is more a philosophical question than a scientific one. Unless you have scientific proof that a fetus is granted a soul after 3 weeks, 7 days. I'm not aware of that study, so I'd like to see it if you have it.....

Spin away.

Keep changing the determining factor. It used to be when life begins...now we're talking about at what point we grant basic human rights?

Ridiculous. It's a spin game.

Devils'Advocate · 05-31-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

By pretending that you "do not know" you are granting yourself the pleasure of ignorance, while at the same time condoning abortion. At least have the courage and the intelligence to admit that abortion is murder or very close to it. That is still a somewhat defensible point.

Aha. So now it is that only the intelligent and courageous that say that abortion is murder and the stupid and weak oppose that point of view. Really, you know, insulting people isn't really a good way to debate issues.

photon · 05-31-2009, 09:14 PM

I don't think you guys are being fair to what DA's saying at all, you're taking his position of contingency and twisting it implying that he's being willfully ignorant.

He's not pretending to know, he doesn't know. And I don't know either.

Displaced Flames fan · 05-31-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Aha. So now it is that only the intelligent and courageous that say that abortion is murder and the stupid and weak oppose that point of view. Really, you know, insulting people isn't really a good way to debate issues.

Spin some more!

Not at all what he said.

Displaced Flames fan · 05-31-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

I don't think you guys are being fair to what DA's saying at all, you're taking his position of contingency and twisting it implying that he's being willfully ignorant.

He's not pretending to know, he doesn't know. And I don't know either.

So you have no problem with killing viable fetuses because you don't know at what point they should be awarded human rights? It's nothing more than a LEGAL issue for you?

I find that difficult to believe Photon.