Young American's losing their religion.

[tjinaz]

In Stalinist russian, Mao's China, and Pol Pot's Cambodia communism WAS the state religion. They just didn't want any competition.

People are sheep and want to believe in and belong to something bigger than themselves. It is when this becomes zealotry that is becomes a problem. It depends on how fanatical they get.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Meh, I am the first one to oppose organized religion, but the reality is, Humans are sheep. It is just a matter of who will step in to fill that void for a need to believe in something. For Hitler it was the Jews and being treated unfairly, for many extremists its American values, for the KKK its the Blacks, for many westerners it used to be the communists...etc.

Their is nothing waiting in the wings that is designed to control thought, draw battle lines and consolidate power as well as the mainstream religions can. Also:

Hitler = christian
Extremists are nearly always religion based
kkk = christian
And Stalin abolished religion so that the people would worship the state and himself. I'm not sure what 'theism' turning yourself into god falls under.

A society free of religion still hasn't escaped the tribalism of our past, but the savage methods are being replaced by softer incarnations. Land wars have ceased in most of europe (where they are more atheists than anywhere), they pour their money into soccer teams instead.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

Seriously, your playing that card?

Why shouldn't he?

Personally I'm sick and tired of the 'stand' against organized religion some of the people on CP take.

I hate it as much as the next person....but a free society is only free if they have the choice to believe anything they want.

These people CHOOSE to be involved in organized religion.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

I agree, religious freedom is as important as any freedom. Freedom of thought is so important, even if it includes racist Nazi's, Scientology, Mormons, etc..

To me ideas should be protected, but arguing and criticizing them is equally important, thus the reason we need to fight against the resolution in the UN that tries to stifle religious criticism.

Agreed.

But what you said is not in step with saying that organized religion has to go, because that is the only way we'll ever be free.

Even though I'm a theist, I happen to agree with you a lot on religious issues. But, freedom of thought, freedom of speech....freedom of religion.

All 3 are equally important, and a truly free society places HUGE emphasis on protecting all 3.

One could argue that being an atheist/agnostic is protected by the same rights that protect someone who is a hardcore Southern Baptist.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

Well Jesus didn't even like organized religion so even he is probalby on board. In the bible he was very angry with the Pharisies and Saducies for abusing the religion he didn't like all of the dogmatic practices and he didn't like profiteering going on in the temple. I think that Jesus vision is much closer to people gathering together to celebrate god then any of the organized religions we have now.

A very good point, and one that people, including those that are involved with the multi-million dollar churches....overlook.

Organized religion has turned into a money-making entity. Meaning they'll probably say ANYTHING to get you to commit to their cause, and put money into their pockets.

As someone who literally freaks out everytime I turn on the Miracle Channel and hear some big-talking preacher tell HIS version of what it takes to get into heaven.....I am completely against this new-age form of organized religion.

And like you said....I suspect Jesus would have been too.

[Displaced Flames fan]

The title of the post has a completely different meaning in the South.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why shouldn't he?

Personally I'm sick and tired of the 'stand' against organized religion some of the people on CP take.

I hate it as much as the next person....but a free society is only free if they have the choice to believe anything they want.

These people CHOOSE to be involved in organized religion.

But isn't a free society only free if they have the choice to challenge the institutions of that society, including organized religions?

[Kipper is King]

Another religion bashing thread. ::groan::

[MelBridgeman]

religion made me do it!

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

i have nothing against personal belief. but when an organization tries to impose it's belief on others (aka almost all organized religions) they are trying to limit one's freedoms

the day that the church is no longer relevant is the day that we don't have to hear ridiculous crap like Alberta schools being required to inform parents if they teach evolution, or southern states providing abstinence only education causing a massive spike in teen pregnancy, or the vatican refusing to support condom usage, preferring millions die instead in Africa due to aids

the day that religion has no influence on our lives will be a very good day indeed

People will always believe something, whether its religious based or NOT. So people will always be opposing their beliefs on others...eliminating religion isn't going to stop anything, you accuse it of perpetuating.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by John Doe

But isn't a free society only free if they have the choice to challenge the institutions of that society, including organized religions?

Where did I ever disagree with challenging the whole idea of organized religion?

Obviously....in a truly free society, one can challenge anything, including the church....provided it doesn't discriminate racially or sexually against the people involved.

My problem is with the people who make driveby posts saying that we will only be free if organized religion is tossed out.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

A very good point, and one that people, including those that are involved with the multi-million dollar churches....overlook.

Organized religion has turned into a money-making entity. Meaning they'll probably say ANYTHING to get you to commit to their cause, and put money into their pockets.

As someone who literally freaks out everytime I turn on the Miracle Channel and hear some big-talking preacher tell HIS version of what it takes to get into heaven.....I am completely against this new-age form of organized religion.

And like you said....I suspect Jesus would have been too.

so why do you have a problem with my original statement? i have no issues with personal belief or the religions themselves, it's the organizations that want to use that faith as a way to influence everyone that is garbage. and you can talk about the seperation of Church and State all you want, but the reality is that it does not exist in the States or even Canada. as long as religion plays such key roles in elections and other politics, it will always influence how our governments run

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

so why do you have a problem with my original statement? i have no issues with personal belief or the religions themselves, it's the organizations that want to use that faith as a way to influence everyone that is garbage. and you can talk about the seperation of Church and State all you want, but the reality is that it does not exist in the States or even Canada. as long as religion plays such key roles in elections and other politics, it will always influence how our governments run

Because if someone wants to be involved with organized religion....they can, and I won't do anything outside of challenging their belief, or lack of.

Just because I have a major problem with it doesn't mean I think making it go away would make us a totally free society.

Either way....I suspect your belief is a result of all those freaky people on the Miracle Channel. For that....I don't really blame you.

Trust me, they freak me out too.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

good. only when organized religion is stamped out from our lives will we be a truly free society

I am guessing it is going to be you who decides when religion becomes "organized" and thus dangerous to our freedom?

I see you said that you have nothing against personal beliefs; so what happens when two (three, ten, thousand?) people share their personal religious beliefs? Are they organized and dangerous to each other?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because if someone wants to be involved with organized religion....they can, and I won't do anything outside of challenging their belief, or lack of.

Just because I have a major problem with it doesn't mean I think making it go away would make us a totally free society.

Either way....I suspect your belief is a result of all those freaky people on the Miracle Channel. For that....I don't really blame you.

Trust me, they freak me out too.

well i'm not one to outlaw organized religion or tell people what they can and cannot be a member of. my comment was reflecting more on how as our society progresses and learns more about our universe, religion's influence has continually faded. compared to what things were like a few hundred years ago, our society seems athiest in comparison. i just hope this trend continues and we learn enough as a race to outgrow the need for religion entirely

[SebC]

Hallelujah!

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There should absolutely be a separation of church and state.

Separation of church and state isn't enough. Just as one example, it won't protect children from being brainwashed with their parents' assinine beliefs. Now, you can't legislate away religion, but you can educate people and hope that they will eventually figure things out for themselves. What we do need is a legal framework that places religious freedom near the botttom of the totem pole of rights. Equality is higher, education is higher, freedom of speech is higher.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by SebC

Hallelujah!

Separation of church and state isn't enough. Just as one example, it won't protect children from being brainwashed with their parents' assinine beliefs. Now, you can't legislate away religion, but you can educate people and hope that they will eventually figure things out for themselves. What we do need is a legal framework that places religious freedom near the botttom of the totem pole of rights. Equality is higher, education is higher, freedom of speech is higher.

Bizarre. I think the way we have it is fine. Stop minding other people's business and mind your own.

Comments like this stink. They show no liberalism, no understanding of our society, just the plain old urge to push the state's coercion into all aspects of people's lives. And this silly notion of progress that somehow education will bring us forward into a new age of enlightenment.

How are we moderns more educated than the classics? How educated are you? Have you read Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Spinoza, or any of the other great Western thinkers? The idea that you somehow have the inside on knowledge over all religious people is ridiculous.

[ResAlien]

*Blabbedy Blab*
*Rebuttal*
*Blabbety Blab Blah Blah!*
*Same point for the thousandth time*
*Blah Blabbety Blah Bleh Blah*
*Religion Sucks, Christians suck, everyone who believes in God is a moron*
*Blabbety Blabbering Blab Blabulous*
*Agnostic / Athiest rantings that are just as dogmatic as what they bitch about*
*Repeat ad nauseum*

Lord I love these threads. No chance on a sticky for this there huh?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

Hallelujah!

Separation of church and state isn't enough. Just as one example, it won't protect children from being brainwashed with their parents' assinine beliefs.

Here is where you have to be very careful. I for one believe parental rights trump most other rights. If someone wants to raise there kid to be racist they should be allowed to. If you start regulating parental athority you very quickly eliminate any kind of freedoms we have in society.

Your position seems to be that you would eliminate or severly restrict freedom of speech in order to impose state approved parenting messages. This is not in the best interests of a free society.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

Another religion bashing thread. ::groan::

Religions have been bashing each other for years, I'm just piling on.