Europe bans Canadian seal products

[4X4]

http://www.explosm.net/comics/1476/

[Suzles]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that eating the proteins found in meat is truly what is responsible for the evolution and intellegence of the human brain.

Quite possible. But that would have been when man had to hunt for his wild meat and not have the easy availability of intensively factory farmed, steroid enhanced, antibiotic pumped full version of today.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Suzles

Quite possible. But that would have been when man had to hunt for his wild meat and not have the easy availability of intensively factory farmed, steroid enhanced, antibiotic pumped full version of today.

I do wish we could take out some of the additives in our meat these days because they just cannot be good for us........but not eating meat is not an option for me.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by JimmytheT

These videos create a ridiculous false symmetry as well. Sure there are instances of poor treatment at farms, and slaughter-houses, but there are also instances of households abusing or neglecting pets. The commonality between these two is that they are both very much in the minority.

As a rural banker, I go out on farm visits all the time. I see plenty of cattle operations, where the farmer treats their cattle better than some people treat their children. However the cattle are their livelihoods, and eventually they have to sell some to slaughter in order to earn a living.

Its ridiculous and for that matter wrong, to suggest that the majority of livestock operations are at all like the one that is shown in the video posted by dissentower.

So do you visit factory farms often or small independently run cattle operations? Because the majority of meat is produced at factory farms where the livestock is generally mistreated. I would say that the majority of smaller independent cattle farms do treat their cattle well except for the whole murder part.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by 4X4

The notion of not eating meat because there are alternatives is ludicrous to me. Humans have been eating meat since history was recorded. To just stop because we suddenly feel bad about it is ridiculous.

Yeah because tradition should dictate how we live because it is always right. Women were treated as second rate people until about 70 years ago. So your argument than would be well we've been treating women like for thousands of years now we have to respect them?

[photon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that eating the proteins found in meat is truly what is responsible for the evolution and intellegence of the human brain.

Not directly responsible as in it didn't cause it to happen (otherwise tigers would be smarter than us), but enable yeah that makes sense, more energy in a meal means less time finding that meal, which means that something can evolve to use that surplus.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Yeah because tradition should dictate how we live because it is always right. Women were treated as second rate people until about 70 years ago. So your argument than would be well we've been treating women like for thousands of years now we have to respect them?

I say this all the time, the best sign of a weak argument is someone who has to shift the scope dramatically and make outlandish comparisons in order to prove their point.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Yeah because tradition should dictate how we live because it is always right. Women were treated as second rate people until about 70 years ago. So your argument than would be well we've been treating women like for thousands of years now we have to respect them?

just ridiculous...and you know it.

Humans are built to be omnivores/carnivores...period. Its not "tradition", its freaking nature. We were given teeth to do such, a digestive system to do such, and an instinct to do such. They have found evidence of this dating back over 2 MILLION years ago.

Now if you are arguing that some sort of human "evolution" is taking place to change that, fine, but that's another argument and a different topic. I would suggest its actually the other way around.

[Shazam]

We can still get delicious seal meat at home, so I'm not worried.

[Hack&Lube]

This is deja vu. Haven't we been here many times before? CP vs. Dissentower/Suzles/Sowa?

Sorry, but I'm with the general CP side. Meat eating is part of our genetic makeup through evolution. We have the teeth to tear apart meat and the digestive system to digest it. I don't doubt that today's farmed and slaughtered animals are fed with certain amounts of otherwise questionable byproducts as feed (chicken feathers ground up for protein supplement), certain antibiotics and drugs, etc. but much of our commonly available vegetables and grains are also genetically modified and also heavily fertilized. I have absolutely no problem with that and eating those foods and believe all the fear-mongering about it is simply hysteria built on the same psyche that generates conspiracy theories not based on sound rational logic or science. I was raised on this food and I'm perfectly fine (at least I think I am!!!). The human animal is much more adaptable and resistant than you would think. Is there a problem with antibiotics and fertilizer use? Yes it's leading to the evolution of more and more resistant pests and organisms and disease, but there's not much that can be done about it without overturning the entire food production industry worldwide.

I have nothing against Vegetarians or Vegans etc., but it is definetely a personal choice and not something that needs to be preached to everyone else like it's a fataing religion.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I have nothing against Vegetarians or Vegans etc., but it is definetely a personal choice and not something that needs to be preached to everyone else like it's a fataing religion.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Thor

Eating meat is no immediate danger, global warming IS an immediate danger we have much to be concerned about.

This really belongs in all the other global warming threads but personally I put the hysteria behind that into the same catagory as the vector of this thread. Humans tend to have a very narrow and closed-minded view of things. Everything to them is the here and now and recent history. All signs always point to calamity or doom here and now from global warming to the dangers of eating meat to the rise of the illuminati bankers, natural disasters harking the end-times etc. etc. etc.

I don't think the science is complete, much of it is remarkably flawed (admitted by many of the scientists who were once vehementely in the Al Gore camp)...and like much of human nature, doesn't put the focus where it counts - the long term history of human civilization and the meteorological and geological history of planet earth (of which recorded history is like a grain of sand on the beach). I believe in climate change, but I don't believe in nor worry about the global warming claims as advocated by the current "fad" movement (even in our short lives, it seems every decade brings a new environmental fad) which like so much else...manifests itself like a religious movement in how stubborn and fiery some people get about it.

Maybe I'm just being blaise because it doesn't really affect me. I'm sure that in Iceland, that would be a major concern of yours but I'd really worry about your banks and not the rising sea-levels first!!!

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

This is deja vu. Haven't we been here many times before? CP vs. Dissentower/Suzles/Sowa?

Sorry, but I'm with the general CP side. Meat eating is part of our genetic makeup through evolution. We have the teeth to tear apart meat and the digestive system to digest it. I don't doubt that today's farmed and slaughtered animals are fed with certain amounts of otherwise questionable byproducts as feed (chicken feathers ground up for protein supplement), certain antibiotics and drugs, etc. but much of our commonly available vegetables and grains are also genetically modified and also heavily fertilized. I have absolutely no problem with that and eating those foods and believe all the fear-mongering about it is simply hysteria built on the same psyche that generates conspiracy theories not based on sound rational logic or science. I was raised on this food and I'm perfectly fine (at least I think I am!!!). The human animal is much more adaptable and resistant than you would think. Is there a problem with antibiotics and fertilizer use? Yes it's leading to the evolution of more and more resistant pests and organisms and disease, but there's not much that can be done about it without overturning the entire food production industry worldwide.

I have nothing against Vegetarians or Vegans etc., but it is definetely a personal choice and not something that needs to be preached to everyone else like it's a fataing religion.

Although your conclusions are mostly correct, your knowledge of food production is just as bad as Sowa's.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Although your conclusions are mostly correct, your knowledge of food production is just as bad as Sowa's.

Please elaborate. Those things are all there. They do grind up chicken feathers as protein supplement (there's nothing wrong with that at all, unless it makes you cringe). They did use brain and spinal matter as feed as well that likely led to bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow). But in the big picture of how large and massive in scale the entire food production industry in the world it, it doesn't really matter. Fertilizer is great. Antibiotics are used. In the long run, it is inevitable that resistant pests or microorganisms will evolve and adapt. GMO crops are amazing and should be the mainstay of the industry if the cost was lower due to the whole patent thing (like patent drugs). The efficiency of the food industry in reusing byproducts is what makes food so widespread and affordable.

I don't claim to be an expert in anything, much less food production. I just know what I've read and my general feelings of the big picture.

[FlamesAddiction]

A lot of people don't realize that seal populations are higher than the ecosystem can sustain in some parts of the arctic. Due to human influences, they have actually become a burden. Having more of a particular animal in an ecosystem isn't always better... so the seal hunt is necessary on some levels.

Originally Posted by peter12

Why do seal rights matter more than human family rights? Some people are going to have trouble putting food on the table and clothes on their children's backs because of "animal rights activists" like yourself. Good work.

I don't think any animal rights matter more than human rights, but we are comparing apples to oranges. It's not like we are saying it's ok to club baby humans while protecting seals.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

[Gozer]

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

This is deja vu. Haven't we been here many times before? CP vs. Dissentower/Suzles/Sowa?

Sorry, but I'm with the general CP side. Meat eating is part of our genetic makeup through evolution. We have the teeth to tear apart meat and the digestive system to digest it. I don't doubt that today's farmed and slaughtered animals are fed with certain amounts of otherwise questionable byproducts as feed (chicken feathers ground up for protein supplement), certain antibiotics and drugs, etc. but much of our commonly available vegetables and grains are also genetically modified and also heavily fertilized. I have absolutely no problem with that and eating those foods and believe all the fear-mongering about it is simply hysteria built on the same psyche that generates conspiracy theories not based on sound rational logic or science. I was raised on this food and I'm perfectly fine (at least I think I am!!!). The human animal is much more adaptable and resistant than you would think. Is there a problem with antibiotics and fertilizer use? Yes it's leading to the evolution of more and more resistant pests and organisms and disease, but there's not much that can be done about it without overturning the entire food production industry worldwide.

I have nothing against Vegetarians or Vegans etc., but it is definetely a personal choice and not something that needs to be preached to everyone else like it's a fataing religion.

Read this man, it might change your tune a little when it comes to what you put in your stomach!!!!

http://www.michaelpollan.com/omnivore.php

As far as people preaching alternative eating habits, do what I do. Ignore them. As I said before, if everyone went vegan there wouldn't be enough land on this planet to support growing all those veggies, and half of us would die. People simply do not understand this. Same with processed beef, etc....if everyone went free range organic we would all starve due to the lack of land to graze your cattle and chickens. Food sources are finite if they're not mass produced. Throw in fertilizers and pesticides to cultivate those lands and grow crops to even TRY and keep up with demand, and you have one gigantic, effed up eco system.

So in my mind the more people that eat fast food from commercial operations the better. Their lifestyle choices are likely assuring I have enough quality food for myself. The fact that it comes from mistreated animal farms is almost a necessary evil to keep me alive......it sucks but it's the friggin reality.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

[dissentowner]