In what way? That seems like a weird way to enter into a thread.
Well I have been the the big animal rights advocate on this board for years. It's just interesting seeing someone else argue about it. I don't really agree with much he's saying, but it's interesting.
For the record, I believe animals have the right to life. I won't respond to silly hypotheticals because they are just silly. I don't believe that an animal hunting another animal is the same as a human consuming meat because due to technoligical advances we don't need to kill animals to survive. I also don't believe that animals should be tested on. I also think an exotic pet trader is an odd choice for an animal rights person and personally doesn't vibe with my own views, but to each their own.
Well I have been the the big animal rights advocate on this board for years. It's just interesting seeing someone else argue about it. I don't really agree with much he's saying, but it's interesting.
For the record, I believe animals have the right to life. I won't respond to silly hypotheticals because they are just silly. I don't believe that an animal hunting another animal is the same as a human consuming meat because due to technoligical advances we don't need to kill animals to survive. I also don't believe that animals should be tested on. I also think an exotic pet trader is an odd choice for an animal rights person and personally doesn't vibe with my own views, but to each their own.
What does that mean? We were ok to eat animals up until we became technologically advanced enough that we don't have to anymore?
I mean, we've created robot dogs, but that'll never take the place of man's best friend.
I don't know what technology you're eating, but I bet it doesn't taste as good as a steak.
What does that mean? We were ok to eat animals up until we became technologically advanced enough that we don't have to anymore? I mean, we've created robot dogs, but that'll never take the place of man's best friend.
It means that we have the capability to live a meat free existence. This has been possible for a long time. That combined with the point of time where we acquired knowledge that we are inflicting suffering/pain/harm to another being is the point in time where I believe there is no excuse for the killing of animals for consumption. I am sorry you equate technology to robots, maybe next time a look in the dictionary is in order before you post?
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I don't know what technology you're eating, but I bet it doesn't taste as good as a steak.
And this is why I can't stand having an argument on this board about this stuff; jackass remarks like this, but it's to be expected.
From a personal experience perspective I get angry that anyone suggest that we should not eat or harm any other living thing.
Iceland has no choice, if we don't fish we would have been extinct a long time ago, again with most of the northern world where meat is a key to our survival.
A friend's GF once told me fishing is murder, and I told her thanks to murder me and the rest of Iceland exist. Maybe she wishes we and most of the northern world would be dead, but utlimately in our day and age not eating meat is a choice and that choice is something our ancestors did not have the luxory of.
Not to mention that choice is not there for a vast majority of the world today, Africa and 3rd world countries you don't find many vegans
Its like denying human nature, sure go for it if you want but don't forget you exist in a society built on it and because of it you now have a choice to no longer eat meat.
The one narrated by Alec Baldwin, with the throat slashing and horn snipping?
Yeah, I did. It's nothing I haven't seen before.
These videos create a ridiculous false symmetry as well. Sure there are instances of poor treatment at farms, and slaughter-houses, but there are also instances of households abusing or neglecting pets. The commonality between these two is that they are both very much in the minority.
As a rural banker, I go out on farm visits all the time. I see plenty of cattle operations, where the farmer treats their cattle better than some people treat their children. However the cattle are their livelihoods, and eventually they have to sell some to slaughter in order to earn a living.
Its ridiculous and for that matter wrong, to suggest that the majority of livestock operations are at all like the one that is shown in the video posted by dissentower.
It means that we have the capability to live a meat free existence. This has been possible for a long time. That combined with the point of time where we acquired knowledge that we are inflicting suffering/pain/harm to another being is the point in time where I believe there is no excuse for the killing of animals for consumption. I am sorry you equate technology to robots, maybe next time a look in the dictionary is in order before you post?
And this is why I can't stand having an argument on this board about this stuff; jackass remarks like this, but it's to be expected.
Take it easy there, buddy. I'm sorry that you have decided what's right for my diet. Meat free existence? After thousands of years of eating meat? I hear Al Gore is hiring on his expedetion to tell the human race that we've screwed the 4.5 billion year old planet in a couple hundred years.
Jackass remarks? That GMO corn doesn't taste like a friggin steak? Whatever you say, chief.
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And the dog comment was an illustration that no amount of technology ever replaces the real thing. But don't let me interrupt you. Keep saving the world.
It is scientific fact that humans have evolved as omnivores, so just deal with it.
I can just see it now.................the year 2040, and there will be a meat-prohibition era. I will have no other choice but to head the meat mafia. We will boot-leg meat and sell it on the black market. I will use cut-throat business tactics and rule the streets with an iron fist. It is NOT gonna be pretty ladies and gentlemen........
Take it easy there, buddy. I'm sorry that you have decided what's right for my diet. Meat free existence? After thousands of years of eating meat? I hear Al Gore is hiring on his expedetion to tell the human race that we've screwed the 4.5 billion year old planet in a couple hundred years.
Jackass remarks? That GMO corn doesn't taste like a friggin steak? Whatever you say, chief.
Meat eating and global warming is another subject. While Al Gore is a freak, the point about an immediate danger to our planet is real.
Meat eating and global warming is another subject. While Al Gore is a freak, the point about an immediate danger to our planet is real.
Yeah, I don't disagree that the planet is undergoing change that we've not been around to witness or examine long enough. Which is why I compare it to the sudden elimination to meat consumption in humans.
The notion of not eating meat because there are alternatives is ludicrous to me. Humans have been eating meat since history was recorded. To just stop because we suddenly feel bad about it is ridiculous.
Yeah, I don't disagree that the planet is undergoing change that we've not been around to witness or examine long enough. Which is why I compare it to the sudden elimination to meat consumption in humans.
The notion of not eating meat because there are alternatives is ludicrous to me. Humans have been eating meat since history was recorded. To just stop because we suddenly feel bad about it is ridiculous.
Eating meat is no immediate danger, global warming IS an immediate danger we have much to be concerned about.
Eating meat is no immediate danger, global warming IS an immediate danger we have much to be concerned about.
Great. Save it for another thread. Sorry if my comparison sucked and it made you want to straighten me out, but this isn't the place for that. Global warming sucks. Gotcha.
My point is that humans have been eating meat for a long f'ing time. The post I responded to suggested that new technology can somehow eliminate meat from our diet. Assumably without repercussions.
Great. Save it for another thread. Sorry if my comparison sucked and it made you want to straighten me out, but this isn't the place for that. Global warming sucks. Gotcha.
Just replying to you, so if it isn't the place for that why bring it up here.
From a personal experience perspective I get angry that anyone suggest that we should not eat or harm any other living thing.
As for Africa and 3rd world countries, you will find that their meat and dairy consumption is far, far, far below North Americas. They are surviving (barely) on staples such as rice and wheat.
Ever read "Religion Explained: The Human Instinct That Fashion Gods" by Pascal Boyer? It suggests that it goes against human nature to be atheist. There are many, many parts of human nature that we may or may not want to hold onto.
And I certainly agree regarding differing people and differing needs. I went to a joint conference between the Nova Scotia Environmental Network and the Nova Scotia Aboriginal Network. NSEN wanted the conference to be vegetarian as a plant based diet has a smaller ecological impact than a meat based diet. NSAN objected on grounds that many aboriginals are suffering from a low meat diet. Given that, more than most people around the world, they traditional ate high levels of meat, switching from meats to breads and sugars has led to a horrible rate of obesity and diabetes in their communities. There is scientific proof that people of aboriginal decent are less able to process breads and sugars. We came to a compromise - NSAN could bring in venison or other hunted meat and fish they caught, which they were more than happy to agree to. Like I said, I'm for minimizing suffering. If there are medical reasons why someone needs meat then so be it, but for most of us it isn't a requirement needed for existence and is a unnecessary luxury.
As for Africa and 3rd world countries, you will find that their meat and dairy consumption is far, far, far below North Americas. They are surviving (barely) on staples such as rice and wheat.
Right, cause Africa has such vast rice and wheat fields. Bush meat is the biggest threat to extinction in Africa today, its the reason for most endangered or 'warning' alerts in that continent.
Most of the rice/wheat is mostly from humanitarian sources, but your point is valid.
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Ever read "Religion Explained: The Human Instinct That Fashion Gods" by Pascal Boyer? It suggests that it goes against human nature to be atheist. There are many, many parts of human nature that we may or may not want to hold onto.
I have not, but its I hear a fascinating book. I'd recommend a video:
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And I certainly agree regarding differing people and differing needs. I went to a joint conference between the Nova Scotia Environmental Network and the Nova Scotia Aboriginal Network. NSEN wanted the conference to be vegetarian as a plant based diet has a smaller ecological impact than a meat based diet. NSAN objected on grounds that many aboriginals are suffering from a low meat diet. Given that, more than most people around the world, they traditional ate high levels of meat, switching from meats to breads and sugars has led to a horrible rate of obesity and diabetes in their communities.
Whats led to a massive amount of obesity isn't the increased protein consumption in our diets, its the massive increase in sugars, salts, and fats.
Its the fact our daily diet has increased in volume, in worse ingredients and mostly under the increasing damage of mass media.
But yeah we're preaching to a choir here.
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There is scientific proof that people of aboriginal decent are less able to process breads and sugars. We came to a compromise - NSAN could bring in venison or other hunted meat and fish they caught, which they were more than happy to agree to.
Of course, environmental situations, evolution. Eskimo's in the north aren't growing crops of wheat and other vegetables, they are under the constraints of their surroundings.
Its the 'natives can't handle liquor' syndrome, we examine isolated tribes in continents and specific abrupt changes to there diet be it oranges or liquors has a real affect that they have not evolved to deal with.
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Like I said, I'm for minimizing suffering. If there are medical reasons why someone needs meat then so be it, but for most of us it isn't a requirement needed for existence and is a unnecessary luxury.
Medical reasons? That's a dubious claim. The fact is for a large portion of this world protein from animal sources is a NECESSITY not a choice.
Its simply a matter of luxury that humans can decide not to eat meat, or not rely on animal protein in their normal lives.
Again, even in this day and age, Iceland my home, cannot go vegan no matter what, they would simply cease to exist.
Iceland is not a rare case, in this world denying eating meat is akin to starvation and anti evolutionary.
The penises are used to make virility drugs, the oil is sold as a supplement. Very little meat is taken except by the Inuit. Clothing, gloves, vests, coats, from the skin.
Volunteer as prisoners? I'd say that when you are forcibly confined any notion of being a 'volunteer' goes out the window.
Why? They can choose to have education whilst in jail. Some categories can even learn a trade. At least they do in England. Why wouldn't that work here. It could make a hopeless soul feel worthwhile again - if they felt they were helping their fellow man.
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that eating the proteins found in meat is truly what is responsible for the evolution and intellegence of the human brain.
