Contract Extortion? Need some advice.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

And really, even if they do go after your credit rating, its one 2-bit ISP. It's hardly like you are in default on your mortgage

That sounds like some sound financial advice...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

If they guaranteed it would work, I agree. But I'd be willing to bet it's a "best efforts" sort of arrangement, and it didn't work out, so they go back to the original contract.

Either way, I hate it when peole start threads asking for advice, it sparks some debate that could easily be cleared up if the OP just posted a few details, but they don't so it goes on and on.

Jeeze Rathji, care to clear this up?

Ya, I suspect that would be the case.

BTW, my apologies for being a bit testy earlier. I've been cooped up all week studying and writing, it's starting to drive me mad.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Yeah, tell them to stick it. You are trying to be reasonable, they are not, and don't deserve more of your money.

And really, even if they do go after your credit rating, its one 2-bit ISP. It's hardly like you are in default on your mortgage

Is this you?

[Tower]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I moved out of town a couple years back and since there isn't any real internet out there I finally decided on a wireless radio service provider, Xplornet. They offered me a deal on a contract for free install, and since I was planning on living there for that long I had no problem paying it.

Fast forward to now, and we have moved back into the city since the house we were living in was slated to be sold/moved. So we consider our options with our internet contract, either we cancel which amounts to $25 a month over the rest of the contract, or we keep it in town and pay $30 a month. So we decide to keep it and move it into the city so at least we are getting something for our money we are being forced to pay. Sure it sucks, but we did sign the contract so whatever.

Now the installer went to the new place and turns out they cannot provide service there due to line of sight issues and they give me 2 options

1) Upgrade our service to their satellite service, which is $100 a month for the blazing fast 1.2Mbps download speed, plus $400 bucks for equipment and about $200 to install. No this is not a joke, they want me to pay twice what Shaw charges, for less than 10% of the speed. Check here if you don't believe me

-OR-

2) Cancel our plan and pay the cancellation fee even though they are unable to provide the service we signed up for, which is about $400.

I want to refuse to pay the cancellation fee, since why should I pay a penalty because they cannot give me service. I am willing to keep the service I signed up for for the price we agreed upon when I signed the contact, but I am not willing to be forced another more expensive service because they cannot provide the other one any further.

The problem is they don't care what I think is right, or what makes sense. They only care that they get their money. If I refuse to pay, it goes to collections, I take a hit on my credit until I decide to shell the cash out. I do pay, and I validate their extortion tactics for them to keep screwing people.

Any advice on how I can get out of this? Taking someone to court for $400 would be good for troutman's wallet, but kinda pointless on my end.

Notify them via registered mail of your costs via mail sent from them to you. Also for all phone calls. Get it notarized.

$25.00 per call. $25.00 per email. Double after business hours. After the cost is even - set off their charge.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Tower

Notify them via registered mail of your costs via mail sent from them to you. Also for all phone calls. Get it notarized.

$25.00 per call. $25.00 per email. Double after business hours. After the cost is even - set off their charge.

[Tower]

Originally Posted by valo403

Is your point that you don't understand??? Or the right to contract that you don't get?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Tower

Is your point that you don't understand??? Or the right to contract that you don't get?

My point is that your plan to bill them for phone communications is so ridiculous it blows my mind.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Tower

Notify them via registered mail of your costs via mail sent from them to you. Also for all phone calls. Get it notarized.

$25.00 per call. $25.00 per email. Double after business hours. After the cost is even - set off their charge.

Yeah, but by your own logic earlier about the traffic ticket, unless they sigh that badboy, they don't have to pay it.

Oh, and the real logic that you can't just send someone a bill for talking to them on the phone, works pretty well too.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Tower

Is your point that you don't understand??? Or the right to contract that you don't get?

Actually, if you think your advice to the OP that sending a registered letter that from here on, the OP will charge $25.00 for every email and phone call creates an obligation on the ISP to pay for every subesquent email and phone call, you don't understand how the right to contract works, period.

That's one of the sillier suggestions I've seen on CP in years. Not the silliest, mind you.

[Rathji]

Sorry for not replying since this morning, apparently it has cause some confusion in this thread.

Since there was a request for the contract itself, it can be found here. It doesn't say anything about moving, other than I cannot move the equipment myself.

The woman on the phone told me there was service there, and the postal code application on the website indicates they provide service at that location. This was about 5 months ago. We didn't move it at the time, because the house hadn't sold and we were unsure about what we wanted to do with it yet (keep or transfer to my father in law who owned the house).

She also told me that if they were not able to provide service they would not be charging me to cancel. I don't have any proof of this though, so it is pretty much irrelevant in terms of doing something about the contract.

So for 5 months I assumed I would be able to move it and eat the cost of the rest of the contract or be able to cancel with no penalty if they couldn't provide service. After all I did sign it, and as I explained in the OP I wanted to get the service rather than nothing. Now I find out yesterday that I can't move it there, and I have the 2 choices I listed above.

Let me make this clear. This is not a case of me not wanting to live up to the contract I have signed. I just feel like Xplornet employees have lied to me from day one, saying whatever it is they think I wanted to hear in order for me to continue my service. I could cite examples, but this post is long enough as is stands.

In hindsight, I would have recorded all calls and interactions with them and this would be a non-issue. However, I do feel like at some point you do need to trust that the people who are providing you service are not lying to you.

In the end, I need to either pay the 400 bucks or find someone who will take over the contract. I realize this, but it doesn't make me feel any less screwed over.

Did learn some good lessons from this though, like don't sign a peice of paper that doesn't have the terms of a contract on it but binds you to that contract. Nothing good can come from signing something you don't know what it says....

[Rathji]

In response to a few other posters:

There is no point in taking this to the media.

There is no point in taking them to court.

There is no point in not paying it. I would rather pay the fee than take the hit on my credit, but the fact that they want 400 bucks now rather than over the next year and a half is kinda painful right now.

There is no point in trying to bill them for phone conversations, however if you have an idea where I can sign my speeding tickets and send them to them in order to cover my cancellation fee, I am all ears.

[Tower]

Originally Posted by Rathji

There is no point in trying to bill them for phone conversations, however if you have an idea where I can sign my speeding tickets and send them to them in order to cover my cancellation fee, I am all ears.

You are referring to remittance and it will not work that way...

There is my point and anyone has grounds to do it in this country.

Here is an example with a set off with student loans NOT written by me.

EDULINX acts on behalf of the Alberta government when it comes to student loans, and on June 2nd they decided to take money from my bank account. Seeing as I've been out of work for a while (employed now) I was broke, and their attempt resulted in an NSF charge. So I called them on June 10th, when I noticed this, and asked them what the hell! I don't recall ever giving them access to my bank account, but then when I applied for school, the person dealing with me at CDI just said 'sign this, and that, and here, and whatever' and like a fool, I didn't read anything I was signing. So when my bank account ended up over drawn because of their actions, I gave them a call, asked what was going on. Crystal assured me that they have proof I gave them access to my account. I sorta wanted this information for myself, and to be reimbursed for both my NSF charge and the fact I had to take time out of my day to wait on hold for a representative. So I made this known to the representative that every phone call I make, and receive from any representative of EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION will be subjected to a $25 dollar fee. The representative said that was fine but I would have to put my requests for such in a formal letter. I then asked that I receive certified copies of every piece of information they have on file about me, and to have it sent by certified (registered) mail to my updated address. She said that it's not their policy to use certified mail, but instead to use standard post. I said that sounds a little ridiculous to me as they will be clearly sending my financial information through standard mail, and I found that to be a large security risk, not only that, they can never confirm that I actually received the information I requested. I also requested that I receive the information within 7 days. They said they don't care, that it was their policy to use standard post. So I didn't argue the fact any more, and instead waited a few days for the mail to get here. They call me June 17th, and ask if I would like to speak with them, I say not at this time. I leave it at that and they hang up. I was on my way to a job interview or I would have loved to talk with them, and after my interview, I did call back. I said I have yet to receive the information I asked for seven days ago, and that they are now acting in dishonour. They assured me I will receive it and that it was mailed off June 14th. They failed to admit that they were in fact, acting in dishonour due to not adhering to the initial request. So I then wrote them a nice letter, with my requests and my fee schedule.

Letter


Attn Payment Processing.
EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION
PO Box 4050
Mississauga, ON, STATION A
L5A-4M9


DOE, JOHN JAMES - name changed for mans privacy
c/o Doe, John James
PLACE WHERE I LIVE AVE NW
Edmonton, Alberta
POSTAL CODE

June 21, 2008.

Hello,

My name is John James: of the Doe family, commonly known as DOE, JOHN JAMES. On two occasions I have had to call EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION in regards to money your company has cost me through accessing my bank account without authorization. Your representatives have claimed that I gave your company authorization, so I requested copies of every piece of documentation pertaining to me to be sent via certified mail. I was assured that I would receive the documentation I requested via standard mail due to the fact it is apparently not your policy to go to extra lengths to ensure personal information reaches the individual it is intended for. I settled for that and told the representative that I will also be requesting the full reimbursement of the 35 dollar CAD NSF REVERSE FEE that was caused by your companies accessing of my bank account. I also told the representative that I will be requesting 25 dollars CAD for each individual phone call made to any representative of EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION, or received by any representative of EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION as per my fee schedule. I also requested that the documentation be received at my address within 7 days or EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION would be acting in dishonour. I requested this June 10th, of the year 2008. It is now June 21st, of the year 2008 and I still have not received the requested documentation at all. Since I had to call in on June 10th, 2008, and received a call on June 17th, 2008, as well as made a return call on June 17th, of 2008, and my fee schedule is 25 dollars CAD for every phone call I participate in with any representative of EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION, as well as 10 dollars CAD per everything I send via mail to any representative of EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION in reply to anything that a representative of EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION has sent me. As such, the current owing to John James: of the Doe family, representative acting for the corporation DOE, JOHN JAMES, is 75 dollars CAD for the phone calls, and the reimbursement for the 35 dollars CAD that EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION cost me by drawing funds from my bank account without my consent. Since you have not provided the proof of my consent to access my personal banking account within a timely fashion, I am requesting a full stop on accessing any of my bank accounts and to be mailed either a bank draft, money order, currency, or silver totaling in value 110 dollars CAD via certified mail to ensure it's prompt and proper receiving by me within 7 days of your receiving of this formal letter. If EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION, or any of its representatives fail to respond within the allotted time, EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION will have acted in dishonour once more and I will be mailing another formal letter this time with a default judgment and a full request to set off my standing with all parties of EDULINX CANADA to a 0 dollar balance. Any responses to this letter must be signed by an officer of EDULINX CANADA CORPORATION in blue ink. I thank you for your time, God's peace.

John James: of the Doe family
Representative for the corporation
DOE, JOHN JAMES

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Tower

You are referring to remittance and it will not work that way...

There is my point and anyone has grounds to do it in this country.

Here is an example with a set off with student loans NOT written by me.

That's a great letter. I expect the loan company must have forgiven the debt in order to avoid any communications charges from the borrower.

If they didn't forgive the debt, they must be out of business by now (or perhaps on the edge of needing creditor protection) due to mounting liabilities from too many communications with their defaulting debtors.

[ken0042]

I just found a way out of your contract for you:

4. USE OF SERVICE: You are prohibited from using the Service and shall use reasonable efforts to ensure the Service is not used for a purpose or in a manner that is contrary to laws including, without limitation, all copyright, trademark and obscenity laws applicable to any content or information transmitted via the Service

Well, if they are going to prohibit you from using the service, they can't expect you to pay.

I just hate when a company uses poor sentance structure to say what they are trying to say.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Tower

You are referring to remittance and it will not work that way...

There is my point and anyone has grounds to do it in this country.

Here is an example with a set off with student loans NOT written by me.

So someone with similarly misguided beliefs as yourself sent a letter that means absolutely nothing in a legal sense, is that what you were going for there? Cause that's all you proved. I can type up a letter right now demanding that I be restored to my rightful place as the King of Denmark, doesn't mean I'm going to be kicking back with a crown on my head saturday night (possibly a crown in my hand, possibly).

You can probably take the "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer off your sig, nobody is going to mistake you for one with the reasoning you display.

[Tower]

I enjoy your posts. I really do.

I see so many people wine and complain. Yet nothing is done. So many people who let corporations (which are legal fictions in society, and this makes corporations a person) do what they want. You can do the same thing and use their rules against them. I don't care what you think. I think it's funny. I still have a lot to learn about how to not let the government and businesses do everything for me, but your so entwined and breast fed that you may just not make it if you try to walk on your own.

Well, have fun!

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Tower

I enjoy your posts. I really do.

I see so many people wine and complain. Yet nothing is done. So many people who let corporations (which are legal fictions in society, and this makes corporations a person) do what they want. You can do the same thing and use their rules against them. I don't care what you think. I think it's funny. I still have a lot to learn about how to not let the government and businesses do everything for me, but your so entwined and breast fed that you may just not make it if you try to walk on your own.

Well, have fun!

I think the problem is that most people are looking for advice that's not likely to create more legal trouble than they already have. Your pseudo-anarchist drivel doesn't cut the mustard in that department.

As people have mentioned in other threads already, the internet crazies don't get to define or interpret the law, and wishing won't make it so.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

I think the problem is that most people are looking for advice that's not likely to create more legal trouble than they already have. Your pseudo-anarchist drivel doesn't cut the mustard in that department.

As people have mentioned in other threads already, the internet crazies don't get to define or interpret the law, and wishing won't make it so.

Ask Mr. Wesley Snipes if you want a reference on that one...