The Flames are Out in QC

[Resolute 14]

Prepares them for the NHL, frankly. I think you will see a western movement in the near term. Victoria, especially, might make a push to move up, and would be a logical pairing for Abbotsford.

As I said in the FOI thread on it, I am sorry to see you guys are losing the team though. I sincerely hope to see a resurrected Quad City Mallards come into Abbotsford a couple times a year in the very near future.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dobbles

abbotsford gets it

http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_va.../43887252.html

good that you guys know where your team will be, but i still think its a silly move. i know everyone always just says they are whiny babies, but the players i have talked to are effected by all the travel. and i would hate to see my teams prospects have that additional weight on them.

It makes it easier to call them up to Calgary, so I am sure they won't mind that.

[dobbles]

as i have said in previous posts about this, the whole prepares them for the nhl stuff is pretty lame. when in the nhl do you play 3 nights in a row? when in the nhl do you play a game, fly 1,500 miles and play again the next day? even in regular nhl back to backs, there is normally very little travel involved. many times teams this season would play a game in texas one night, fly back up to the midwest and play the next day. now imagine that scenario with an extra 1,000 miles added in and a 2 timezone shift.

and its not even about th players being tough enough to handle that. but their increased travel schedule will lead them to play more fatigued. that will decrease their output, increase their chance for injury, and limit their success. i just think its a losing formula for the team.

obviously if they can at least get 1 team it helps with the logistics of the midwest teams coming out to the west coast, but that only mildly reduces the amount of cross country trips they need. i think you would need 3 teams out there to really make it not be a disadvantage.

also, will they be going to the north division? manitoba is the closest team and they are in teh north. however, the other teams in the north division are farther than all the midwest teams. the west division can't manage to take on another team as they are already oversized. i think it would be silly to split up the midwest cluster as that is one of the big travel benefits.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It makes it easier to call them up to Calgary, so I am sure they won't mind that.

so the players travel an extra 20,000 miles over the season so that calgary can maybe save 1,000 miles on a callup? not to mention 50% of your callups are going to occur when you are on the road. look at the warren peters 1 game callup to new york midseason. how would the team being all the way out on teh west coast have benefited then? 50% of the year, the ahl team will be on the road and just as far away as they are know. there's also a significant part of the year that calgary is in the midwest or east coast.

[Resolute 14]

Truthfully, I think that within five years, and probably less, we'll see four teams, at least, on the pacific coast.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Not so fast...doesn't sound like it is a done deal.....Brian Burke apparently doesn't think the move has enough support from AHL teams.



http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...267/story.html

Ha ha, Stupid Burke!

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Truthfully, I think that within five years, and probably less, we'll see four teams, at least, on the pacific coast.

totally agree. The ECHL has 8 franchises in the west, 5 of them have attendance figures in the ballpark of the AHL average attendance. I could see the AHL going after Victoria and northern California

[flambers]

Originally Posted by dobbles

so the players travel an extra 20,000 miles over the season so that calgary can maybe save 1,000 miles on a callup? not to mention 50% of your callups are going to occur when you are on the road. look at the warren peters 1 game callup to new york midseason. how would the team being all the way out on teh west coast have benefited then? 50% of the year, the ahl team will be on the road and just as far away as they are know. there's also a significant part of the year that calgary is in the midwest or east coast.

Guess I am confused how is the travel any worse for an AHLers than an NHLer who plays for the Flames? I would guess if anything the travel is less in AHL than NHL. As the AHL Flames would fly to one City and bus to the others.

While in NHL they tend to fly back and forth all over the place.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by flambers

Guess I am confused how is the travel any worse for an AHLers than an NHLer who plays for the Flames? I would guess if anything the travel is less in AHL than NHL. As the AHL Flames would fly to one City and bus to the others.

While in NHL they tend to fly back and forth all over the place.

i was implying the benefit of having callups closer for roughly 40% of the time is far outweighed by the fact that the entire ahl team will travel much more than they had in the past. not really sure what you are saying...

[flambers]

Originally Posted by dobbles

i was implying the benefit of having callups closer for roughly 40% of the time is far outweighed by the fact that the entire ahl team will travel much more than they had in the past. not really sure what you are saying...

Okay to clarify.... I see no issues what so ever having an AHL team travelling more (i.e. in your thread you talk about 20,000 miles). This basically will prepare the prospect for life in the NHL.

[dobbles]

yeah, my 20,000 was just a random number, but please see my post #124 about ahl travel.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dobbles

i was implying the benefit of having callups closer for roughly 40% of the time is far outweighed by the fact that the entire ahl team will travel much more than they had in the past. not really sure what you are saying...

Nobody is saying it is a perfect situation. It just has to be a better situation than Quad Cities - which it looks like it will be.

[dobbles]

the only way that the qc situation was a bad one was that our local owners ran out of money. i really don't see how that hurt the prospects?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dobbles

the only way that the qc situation was a bad one was that our local owners ran out of money. i really don't see how that hurt the prospects?

One big thing, and KK has alluded to it, is how professional development is affected by fan support. Players are forced to learn professional accountability and become more motivated in environments where they have a higher profile. For some of the prospects, they were playing for smaller crowds in the AHL than they were in junior.... which brings in the business aspect as well. I would bet that the Abbotsford team does better financially than the QC team.

To be fair, the Flames should have expected to build a market and fanbase for their product in QC. I don't blame QC for the Flames having little patience.... but it is what it is.

[flambers]

as i have said in previous posts about this, the whole prepares them for the nhl stuff is pretty lame. when in the nhl do you play 3 nights in a row?

The three nights in a row thing, is basically the same schedule the WHL players currently have... not sure how that is any different.

when in the nhl do you play a game, fly 1,500 miles and play again the next day? even in regular nhl back to backs, there is normally very little travel involved. many times teams this season would play a game in texas one night, fly back up to the midwest and play the next day. now imagine that scenario with an extra 1,000 miles added in and a 2 timezone shift.

As for the 1,500 miles in between games on back to back games obviously this is not going to happen....

I would guess the AHL schedule maker would handle the Flames similiar to what is done with the Moose.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

One big thing, and KK has alluded to it, is how professional development is affected by fan support. Players are forced to learn professional accountability and become more motivated in environments where they have a higher profile. For some of the prospects, they were playing for smaller crowds in the AHL than they were in junior.... which brings in the business aspect as well. I would bet that the Abbotsford team does better financially than the QC team.

To be fair, the Flames should have expected to build a market and fanbase for their product in QC. I don't blame QC for the Flames having little patience.... but it is what it is.

i do see your point in that, but it is important to remember that most of the teams in the midwest play in front of similar crowds. i have been to games in peoria and des moines and trust me their attendance is just the same as qc's was. there are lots of teams that draw poorly. so while its awesome that in canadian juniors, guys can play in front of 10k people a night, its just not a reality in most ahl cities. heck, i think the first game of the playoffs in peoria they had something like 1700 people there. so if low attendance is something nhl teams seriously thinks is important to development, they may need to dramatically shift the ahl and how its run.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by flambers

The three nights in a row thing, is basically the same schedule the WHL players currently have... not sure how that is any different.

i ask how the ahl schedule prepares for the nhl and instead of answering you counter with something about the whl? ok then... moving on...

Originally Posted by flambers

As for the 1,500 miles in between games on back to back games obviously this is not going to happen....

I would guess the AHL schedule maker would handle the Flames similiar to what is done with the Moose.

i know for a fact that the houston aeros several times played the night before, and flew to chicago which is over 1,000 miles. if for instance they were playing the flames, they woudl then bus a few hours from chicago to moline. i am sure they had to do the same to peoria and rockford. not sure if they flew directly into milwuakee though.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

An Abbotsford schedule would look nothing like a Quad City schedule, it would look like the Manitoba Moose schedule.

The Moose had four three-in-threes all season long:

http://www.moosehockey.com/currentsc.../games/10_2008

[flambers]

Originally Posted by dobbles

i ask how the ahl schedule prepares for the nhl and instead of answering you counter with something about the whl? ok then... moving on...

In my response I said the travel will prepare the players for NHL... i.e. flying from one City to another arriving at midnight or in the morning etc. This is stuff the Flames do on a regular occurance.

As for the schedule obviously three games in three nights is a totally seperate issue. Would guess this is done to save costs.

[QuadCityImages]

I still don't see why the other teams voted for this. I suppose its a matter of if they vote against the Flames now, the Flames may vote against them later. I'd really love to know the actual vote, and who was excluded.

I mean, if you accept all the arguments for Abbotsford being made in this thread, all it means is that its not a bad place to play for the AHL Flames. None of them, except for some older references to "expanding the market," help any other team but the Flames. It just seems easier to vote no and stick with the status quo, if you don't have as much to gain as the Flames do.

That said, if the AHL expands to the west coast, which I agree they probably will, then everything mostly works out.