Revenue Canada's mistake destroys man's livelihood

[Jedi Ninja]

What I don't understand is how you can have $900,000 worth of expenses that have no alternate source of documentation; like credit card statements, check stubs, bank statements, etc..

[Bobblehead]

The auditors who aren't a-holes don't last very long.

Unfortunately there are a boatload of people who do abuse the system and I'm sure you get the same sob-stories whether they are innocent or not.

The ones (auditors) who can't be heartless either learn to shed mercy or quit.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Don't blame the victim. Its not his fault.

I'm not going to play a 'blame the victim' game, but I deal with this regularly. Maybe not on that scale, but he broke the cardinal rule.

He panicked.

When people panic they tend to make poor decisions and theres a coople doozies in there.

And what else? People go around ignorantly and say that the April 30th deadline is meaningless and taxes are so easy everyone should be able to just do them themselves and no one can understand why people like me are employed doing tax returns for people. Its for situations like this.

Like it or not, the CRA may be run by morons, but they're powerful morons and more often than not it can easily be one of the single most efficient Government organizations, much like the billing department of a corporation.

I could saved this man's 'life' and business and possessions with a 5 minute phone call made at the right time.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

I could saved this man's 'life' and business and possessions with a 5 minute phone call made at the right time.

Really? Your other posts have been good, but this seems a little over the top? I don't mean to doubt your effectiveness or anything by saying this, but I do find it surprising, thats all.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Really? Your other posts have been good, but this seems a little over the top? I don't mean to doubt your effectiveness or anything by saying this, but I do find it surprising, thats all.

Real easy, sometimes the simplest answers are the best:

Leroux: Locke, my accountant, I just got a letter from the CRA that says they're going to audit me.

Locke: Okay Leroux, dont send them any original documents, only copies.

*click*

Actually, my mistake, that wouldnt even have taken 5 minutes.

There are parts missing in this article, theres no doubt there. The CRA doesnt just send out an auditor to your home or place of business at random, hoping your there and to collect your documents because they're cool like that. The first step after a re-assessment is a letter asking for receipts with a 30 to 60 day deadline.

They want you to send your documents to them, they dont make a habit of showing up and taking them. Its just no efficient.

If they sent a guy after him he either strung them along for a long time or he pissed them off or he did something to make them suspicious.

The only time I've ever had a CRA auditor actually come to my office looking for information it was part of a fraud investigation.

[Locke]

From the other side if he had an accountant representing him I could make a 5 minute phone call the other way too:

Locke: Hi, I'm Mr. Leroux's authorized representative. We're currently collecting the documents, making copies and organizing them, they'll be there before the deadline.

CRA: Awesome Locke, thats great. You are the coolest guy ever.

*click*

Its about co-operation and following procedure. The procedure this guy underwent is very uncommon.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

Real easy, sometimes the simplest answers are the best:



Actually, my mistake, that wouldnt even have taken 5 minutes.

There are parts missing in this article, theres no doubt there. The CRA doesnt just send out an auditor to your home or place of business at random, hoping your there and to collect your documents because they're cool like that. The first step after a re-assessment is a letter asking for receipts with a 30 to 60 day deadline.

They want you to send your documents to them, they dont make a habit of showing up and taking them. Its just no efficient.

If they sent a guy after him he either strung them along for a long time or he pissed them off or he did something to make them suspicious.

The only time I've ever had a CRA auditor actually come to my office looking for information it was part of a fraud investigation.

Like I was saying, I'm not calling your abilities into question at all. I do think that there is more to this story though....the guy had $1 million in question and was handling everything on his own? Sounds like a large enough business that he has/had an accountant?

When I posted though, I thought that the 5 minute phone call was one to CRA to straighten everything out and not a call to the client to say "don't be stupid". That is why I figured that you were over-stating things!

[Slava]

You should be recording all of your phone calls if CRA is calling you the coolest guy ever!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Like I was saying, I'm not calling your abilities into question at all. I do think that there is more to this story though....the guy had $1 million in question and was handling everything on his own? Sounds like a large enough business that he has/had an accountant?

When I posted though, I thought that the 5 minute phone call was one to CRA to straighten everything out and not a call to the client to say "don't be stupid". That is why I figured that you were over-stating things!

No, I know that. There is definitely something missing in this story. And no, theres no 5 minute phone call to the CRA to make things go away, I dont think even the PM could do that, these guys are sharks and when they get the scent of blood they'll pursue it.

I've found that in dealing with the CRA, you gotta watch your own ass and be cooperative. If you make a mistake, they will not help you, ie, documents.

Originally Posted by Slava

You should be recording all of your phone calls if CRA is calling you the coolest guy ever!

Hahahaha.....I probably should.

[Bobblehead]

I've found some people ditch their accountant when the accountant advises them not to do something (and usually it is something stupid).

If an accountant gets caught doing something shady, I have seen more than a few times that the CRA will then audit all the other clients of the accountant.

[Frank the Tank]

I can't be the only person who looked at that picture and thought "WOW! Look at the NOSE on that guy!"? Can I? I feel bad for him and all but that is a beak of epic proportions!!!

[Ford Prefect]

nm

[kenk-la]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I can't be the only person who looked at that picture and thought "WOW! Look at the NOSE on that guy!"? Can I? I feel bad for him and all but that is a beak of epic proportions!!!

Yeah, I agree, I noticed it right away. Still, that is ridiculous, obviously there is more to the story, but he should be compensated for a mistake that major. I loathe Revenue Canada...they can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

That's what happens when government agencies are more interested in making sure everyone knows french then doing their job.

As a federal government employee, I do have some issues with bilingualism in the government, but I think this claim is bogus. I have been better able to do my job after the french training. No longer am I sitting in meetings where I didn't understand 50% of what was being said. I don't have to get someone to translate half of my e-mail. I'm not making hand gestures when trying to communicate with a francophone. Would it be more efficient if the whole world spoke one language? Probably. But until that is the case I think the government is doing the right thing training supervisors to be bilingual.

But more importantly, I don't think taking language training excuses me from doing my job right. Personally, I think with the investment the government has put into my training, I should be more intent on doing a competent job. I think there is a lot more reasons why there are incompetent idiots in the government (though I've found just as many incompetents in the private sector)... bilingualism is a tiny factor. Not being able to fire people based on performance is one. Not being able to promote people based on performance is another (so long as you can word your track record just right and have a silver tongue, you're golden). Burning out the good employees while pampering the poor ones. I think there are much bigger issues to deal with than bilingualism.

[Grunt]

This story just ran on The National a few minutes ago...

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Would it be more efficient if the whole world spoke one language? Probably. But until that is the case I think the government is doing the right thing training supervisors to be bilingual.

Waste of time. The government should be teaching everyone English. Proof: Star Trek. The whole quadrant speaks English.
[/stupid joke]

As for the point of the thread, I sometimes marvel at how easily I change my mind. After reading the article, I was all pissed off like Rerun. Then I read Locke's posts and I think the guy in the article is a moron.
I mean, seriously. The guy has assets worth upward of four mil? And he's just winging it and giving the CRA all the proof he has in the world that he's on the level?

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the detail left out of the story was that the guy took offence to being investigated by the tax man and spitefully handed the auditor a computer monitor box full of receipts figuring "screw you, pal. Now YOU have to look through each and every one of these". And the tax guy just threw it away figuring that the other guy would now be forced to provide him his nice, neat photocopied version of the receipts.

I dunno. Guess you could say that I'm definitely in the "there's more to the story that that" camp. It's fishy. And not just because it's a CBC report.

[FlamesAddiction]

I commend the OP for using the freedom to voice his opinion and to call out his politcal representative. I don't think enough people exercise their freedom like that. People talk about voting being the all important action for exercising out political freedom, but imo, it's being able to step up and be heard.

[Jim Peplinski]

What's funny is how many of you take the man's word as being the gospel truth. We have only heard one side of the story. Unfortunately we will never get to hear the other side of the story as privacy laws prevent RevCan from telling their side of the story. I hope that Mr. Leroux does sue though, because then both sides of the story will come out and be a matter of public record.

[Jim Peplinski]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the detail left out of the story was that the guy took offence to being investigated by the tax man and spitefully handed the auditor a computer monitor box full of receipts figuring "screw you, pal. Now YOU have to look through each and every one of these". And the tax guy just threw it away figuring that the other guy would now be forced to provide him his nice, neat photocopied version of the receipts.

I was thinking along the same lines. How do we even know that this guy even gave the auditor receipts in the first place? He could just as easily have thrown out or otherwise not kept any of his receipts. RevCan shows up to do an audit and asks to see the receipts, and he doesn't have any. RevCan disallows his expenses, and then he turns around and says that the auditor took all his receipts and lost them. I hope that this goes to court, because I would like to hear both sides of the story. I bet that there is a lot more to this story then what is contained in this article.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I can't be the only person who looked at that picture and thought "WOW! Look at the NOSE on that guy!"? Can I? I feel bad for him and all but that is a beak of epic proportions!!!

Takes a lot of coke to make a nose that big. I sure hope he gets his million bucks back.