Why, why, why??? (Calgary road rant)

[First Lady]

Ok, this won't be much of a rant, just got to get this out...

Why are 2 of the 3 newly paved lanes 16 Ave torn up for over 6 blocks????

I checked the city website and all it says is they will be blocked starting April 20, (till May 18) yet they were already torn up yesterday.

Nevermind the fact that clearly we are paying for the same damn road twice.

Second, glad to see I am not the only one who thinks Druh Farrell's Memorial Drive closure is idiotic.

http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/ed...42731-sun.html

McIver for Mayor !!

[ricoFlame]

digging up old trolly lines.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

digging up old trolly lines.

I am sure you are joking. But all the same, they are clearly digging up something or changing lines of some sort.

Wouldn't it have been more economical to do "whatever" it is the first time around?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I am sure you are joking. But all the same, they are clearly digging up something or changing lines of some sort.

Wouldn't it have been more economical to do "whatever" it is the first time around?

He's serious. The old trolly tracks are causing cracks in the new road.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by flameswin

He's serious. The old trolly tracks are causing cracks in the new road.

Don't we have engineers (of some variety) at City Hall who evaluate what type of road surface is going down and how it should be prepared to prevent this type of thing?

It seems pretty obvious to me you just don't pave over old crap. That's like painting over wallpaper and thinking it's not going to show or effect the finish.

[RougeUnderoos]

Trolley tracks? What is this, the San Francisco treat?

There hasn't been a trolley running in Calgary in at least 30 years. They are digging up the tracks now?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Trolley tracks? What is this, the San Francisco treat?

There hasn't been a trolley running in Calgary in at least 30 years. They are digging up the tracks now?

Pretty pathetic eh?

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by First Lady

McIver for Mayor !!

McIver would be a HORRIBLE mayor.

It would be like Al Duerr but worse. Everyone would think things are fine for 10 years because he would proclaim taxes are not going up, and then all of the sudden the next boom hits and (surprise surprise) we are already 10 years behind on getting things done!

Then we can blame that next mayor when he has to play catch-up for 10 more years by spending all the money that McIver SHOULD have been spending.

Not surrprised that you would be a McIver fan though given your stated political leanings....





Claeren.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Not surrprised that you would be a McIver fan though given your stated political leanings....

Claeren.

Given it is my money they are spending, I would sooner have him at the helm than the likes of Farrell; who wants to hold up traffic and contribute to polluting our earth.

[You Need a Thneed]

Constructon Projects that last a while alost always have all of the paving done twice, and especially on projects like 16th Ave. The first time, they pave so that traffic can get going again after they have done work, knowing that they might need to cut into the pavement again later. No sense doing the finished project when you don't know if it's going to be cut into later. When all of the other work is done, and you know there aren't to be any more cuts, that's when the final paving is done.

For example, the four interchanges on Deerfoot that have been built in the last 8-10 years (Douglasdale, Barlow, 130th, McKenzie Towne). Only after ALL four were complete did they bring in the paving crews to put the final layer of pavement on the whole length.

Another reason why they do it twice (especially after digging holes underneath) is that is allows the dirt underneath to settle before putting the final layer on. The contractor misses a spot compacting the soil/gravel underneath, and a heavy truck drives over the paved spot later, instantly ruined driving surface. Paving it temporarily first allows all those spots to be found before the final surface goes on.

As far as the old trolley lines go, that's how paving is often done, just pave over top of what was there before. In many cases, there's not really a reason to remove the old before they place the new. They just remove a bit by the concrete curb so that they can make the pavement level with the concrete curb when it's done. Roadways are sloped anyway, so that water runs off towards the side.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There hasn't been a trolley running in Calgary in at least 30 years. They are digging up the tracks now?

The trolleys were awesome. I remember them from when I was a wee lad; I think they were gone by the mid-70s. I think I rode the one that went down Macleod to my grandma's house a few times; more or less the same route as the LRT except didn't cost a kabillion dollars to build.

[V]

How are they going to close another 2 lanes of Memorial from 3rd to 10th when we've already got two lanes closed due to construction? Oh yeah, that won't be done for a while. And it's expanding to 14th ST quite soon.

-Edit- Just wanted to add that the OP is yet another example of someone who believes they know something about a topic, yet has absolutely no idea. Standard water cooler fare, but it's funny to watch.

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Don't we have engineers (of some variety) at City Hall who evaluate what type of road surface is going down and how it should be prepared to prevent this type of thing?

It seems pretty obvious to me you just don't pave over old crap. That's like painting over wallpaper and thinking it's not going to show or effect the finish.

Because they can't afford to do it right the first time...

But they can afford to do it twice / three times.....

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Constructon Projects that last a while alost always have all of the paving done twice, and especially on projects like 16th Ave. The first time, they pave so that traffic can get going again after they have done work, knowing that they might need to cut into the pavement again later. No sense doing the finished project when you don't know if it's going to be cut into later. When all of the other work is done, and you know there aren't to be any more cuts, that's when the final paving is done.

For example, the four interchanges on Deerfoot that have been built in the last 8-10 years (Douglasdale, Barlow, 130th, McKenzie Towne). Only after ALL four were complete did they bring in the paving crews to put the final layer of pavement on the whole length.

Another reason why they do it twice (especially after digging holes underneath) is that is allows the dirt underneath to settle before putting the final layer on. The contractor misses a spot compacting the soil/gravel underneath, and a heavy truck drives over the paved spot later, instantly ruined driving surface. Paving it temporarily first allows all those spots to be found before the final surface goes on.

As far as the old trolley lines go, that's how paving is often done, just pave over top of what was there before. In many cases, there's not really a reason to remove the old before they place the new. They just remove a bit by the concrete curb so that they can make the pavement level with the concrete curb when it's done. Roadways are sloped anyway, so that water runs off towards the side.

A lot of that makes sense. In fact I think the more eastern portion of 16 (between Peter's Drive-in to about 8 St NE) is at that stage. You can tell is it not final (quality) paving and lanes either have no marking or rudimentary lines.

The portion that is being worked on though is from 10 St NW to about 4 St. NW. This part has been open to traffic for several months and the lane painting to me sure looked like a final stage. Aside from that it is also dug up at least 4 feet deep, which leads me to believe it is a bit more than just laying the final layer.

[HotHotHeat]

You know what's funny? if they would have kept those trollies in service, they would have much better luck creating the street they're trying so hard to on 16 ave.

Calgary is used in urban planning text books / other learning tools as a perfect example of how not to build a city.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by V

-Edit- Just wanted to add that the OP is yet another example of someone who believes they know something about a topic, yet has absolutely no idea. Standard water cooler fare, but it's funny to watch.

Not sure if this directed at me or someone else. Regardless of who you had in mind, do you think everyone has to be an expert at something before you can have an opinion? If that is the case there must be 100's of hockey coasches posting on this forum....

Beyond that, if one never poses questions how do we learn and expand our knowledge of things that we have limited knowledge on?

[Suave]

The paving, digging and repaving is generally part of the construction plan. Often it is required because detours need to be made to keep traffic flowing while the road is widened and crossings made. The road is essentially built in different phases. If we wanted to eliminate some of this "redundancy" we could always close down 16th AVE to all traffic for a significant amount of time, but I'm sure then the rant would become a lot more vile.

[Clarkey]

Close Memorial on Sundays, WTF? There's an awesome bike/walking path that goes along the whole stretch of the road. Who's going to walk on the street. Why do I hear at least 1 completely asinine idea coming out of city council every week or 2?

-Close Memorial on Sundays?
-Ban Water Bottles
-Make Public Swimming Pools a Breast Milk safe zone (complete with signs!)
-Ban Drive Thru's
-$3 to park at C-Trains
-Increase the land transfer tax

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

You know what's funny? if they would have kept those trollies in service, they would have much better luck creating the street they're trying so hard to on 16 ave.

Calgary is used in urban planning text books / other learning tools as a perfect example of how not to build a city.

OK, I'm calling you on this one... proof? Other than that fluff-piece called "Radiant City."

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Close Memorial on Sundays, WTF? There's an awesome bike/walking path that goes along the whole stretch of the road. Who's going to walk on the street. Why do I hear at least 1 completely asinine idea coming out of city council every week or 2?

-Close Memorial on Sundays?
-Ban Water Bottles
-Make Public Swimming Pools a Breast Milk safe zone (complete with signs!)
-Ban Drive Thru's
-$3 to park at C-Trains
-Increase the land transfer tax

I'm not opposed to them trying this type of weekend closure on some street, but Memorial drive just seems like a bizarre choice for this, as is closing just one side of a road. The last place I want to hang out is in the adjacent lane to a traffic jam.