Somali pirates capture oil tanker.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

Apparently some of the pirates fired on the US sailors, forcing the Navy ship to turn back.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa...ef=mpstoryview

Obama on the other hand, won't comment on the 'situation.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...01101720090409

These guys aren't religious fanatics ready to die for their cause. Take a sharp shooter and start drilling holes in the hull of the boat. Give em a choice to either die a horrible drowning death, or surrendering.

Make sure you have divers around to rescue the captain when the boat goes down.

The U.S. and others are showing a major weakness by dinking around with these guys.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Apparently some of the pirates fired on the US sailors, forcing the Navy ship to turn back.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa...ef=mpstoryview

Obama on the other hand, won't comment on the 'situation.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...01101720090409

Do we have to bring Obama into this? This is a life or death situation for an American ship's captain, and the U.S. has military personnel on the scene trying to find a way through the situation. The President's involvement is minimal, and I should hope he would keep his mouth shut until it's resolved. Not everything has to be about politics--a man's life is at stake here.

I just hope they can find a way to save Phillips. What an awful situation.

[Devils'Advocate]

They had a past negotiator that is close to the situation on CBC yesterday and he said that these pirates are scared sh*tless. They DO NOT want to die. They are looking for some way out that will not end in their deaths.

What scares me is that I've heard stories of the warlords holding the pirates families as collateral when they send these guys out on the boats with guns. If they don't come back with a hostage or money then they and their families are done for. Which puts these pirates in a no-win situation. They can't surrender. They can't hand over their hostage. Now obviously I don't know if the warlord that organized THIS kidnapping has threatened the lives of the pirates or their families, but if he did, then this situation has no good ending.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

They had a past negotiator that is close to the situation on CBC yesterday and he said that these pirates are scared sh*tless. They DO NOT want to die. They are looking for some way out that will not end in their deaths.

What scares me is that I've heard stories of the warlords holding the pirates families as collateral when they send these guys out on the boats with guns. If they don't come back with a hostage or money then they and their families are done for. Which puts these pirates in a no-win situation. They can't surrender. They can't hand over their hostage. Now obviously I don't know if the warlord that organized THIS kidnapping has threatened the lives of the pirates or their families, but if he did, then this situation has no good ending.

For guys that are scared less, they demanded 2 million dollars for this Captain. Not fuel for their boat, not free passage, but 2 million dollars.

And I've heard that the majority of the pirates are willing pirates that feel a sense of obligation to the Pirate leaders because the pirate leaders like to throw cash around.

[Devils'Advocate]

He saved our lives!” said second mate Ken Quinn of Bradenton, Fla. “He's a hero.”

Quinn pumped his fists in the air and said he was ready for a cold beer and a hug from his wife and kids. For William Rios, a trip to give thanks at St. John the Baptist Church in New York City was high on his to-do list.

ATM Reza, a father of one from Hartford, Conn., described stabbing one of the pirates with an ice pick in the engine room and tying him up but watching the other bandits flee with Phillips to the enclosed lifeboat.

Quinn told reporters the experience was “terrifying and exciting at the same time.” Asked what he thought of the pirates who seized the boat, Quinn said: “They're just hungry.”

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/659403.html

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Just an update: Captain Richard Phillips has been rescued by Navy Seals. Three of the four pirates were killed in the raid, the last one was captured.

What's this about "dinking around"? I'd call that a resounding success.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa...tes/index.html

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

The President's involvement is minimal,

Well, I'm pretty sure Obama would have to authorize the rescue attempt.

Like he obviously did. Much like the military people around him advised him that American ships probably shouldn't return fire at any cost because there was a rescue operation in place to get the captain back.

Despite his 'no comment'.....I'm positive Obama was on top of this from the get-go.

I saw that the media was harping on his 'no response.' Well, it might have taken this long to respond because it took till now to get the sub the SEALs came from into position.

Either way, glad the captain is safe.

[Azure]

Obama ordered the rescue attempt.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

The officials say Obama ordered the Defense Department to use military resources to rescue Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast.

[metallicat]

Glad to hear it was resolved. Now I hope these pirates think twice before pulling a stunt like this again. They probably won't.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Obama ordered the rescue attempt.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

I don't know. My guess is that they put together a plan and put a call in for final approval to the President, after the planning had already been done, and the other options assessed by persons with more expertise. Saying he "approved" it isn't quite the same as him getting on the horn and ordering his people to use force. I would be reluctant to blame him if it had gone badly, but I'm equally reluctant to give him credit for the operation's success.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I don't know. My guess is that they put together a plan and put a call in for final approval to the President, after the planning had already been done, and the other options assessed by persons with more expertise. Saying he "approved" it isn't quite the same as him getting on the horn and ordering his people to use force. I would be reluctant to blame him if it had gone badly, but I'm equally reluctant to give him credit for the operation's success.

Whose fault would it be if things go badly?

The people directly involved in the rescue attempt can do everything perfectly, and there is still a chance that the captain will be killed.

Just the nature of the job.

Obama deserves credit for ordering the hit, instead of sitting around thinking about paying the ransom.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I don't know. My guess is that they put together a plan and put a call in for final approval to the President, after the planning had already been done, and the other options assessed by persons with more expertise. Saying he "approved" it isn't quite the same as him getting on the horn and ordering his people to use force. I would be reluctant to blame him if it had gone badly, but I'm equally reluctant to give him credit for the operation's success.

That's how it works especially in the special forces community. They put together several plans based on different scenarios. When they go through the chain of command the Commander in Chief doesn't know what they're going to do or how they're going to do it, he just gives them permission to move forward. It gives the president a measure of deniability if things go to pot.

All the president knew was that something was going to happen.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That's how it works especially in the special forces community. They put together several plans based on different scenarios. When they go through the chain of command the Commander in Chief doesn't know what they're going to do or how they're going to do it, he just gives them permission to move forward. It gives the president a measure of deniability if things go to pot.

All the president knew was that something was going to happen.

That's sort of what I figured--and honestly, that's as it should be. The President doesn't have the expertise to be micromanaging that sort of operation anyway.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Whose fault would it be if things go badly?

The pirates?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

That's sort of what I figured--and honestly, that's as it should be. The President doesn't have the expertise to be micromanaging that sort of operation anyway.

Yep.

A lot of people say that was the similarities between Vietnam and Iraq, at least till around the time of the surge.

Too many people back home trying to manage the war.

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

The pirates?

Thankfully, nothing went badly.

I noticed that the US took advantage of the situation by staging the rescue attempt during the time one of the pirates was on an American ship trying to negotiate.

Nothing like thinking you have the upper hand, because the US calls you to their ship to talk, and suddenly looking into the barrel of 30 guns telling you the captain has been rescued, and you're under arrest.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yep.

A lot of people say that was the similarities between Vietnam and Iraq, at least till around the time of the surge.

Too many people back home trying to manage the war.



Thankfully, nothing went badly.

I noticed that the US took advantage of the situation by staging the rescue attempt during the time one of the pirates was on an American ship trying to negotiate.

Nothing like thinking you have the upper hand, because the US calls you to their ship to talk, and suddenly looking into the barrel of 30 guns telling you the captain has been rescued, and you're under arrest.

Serves him right. I don't care what your circumstances at home are--when you're kidnapping people for ransom, you're not one of the good guys.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Serves him right. I don't care what your circumstances at home are--when you're kidnapping people for ransom, you're not one of the good guys.

Totally agree.

They have no form of government. That whole area is chaos and guerrilla warfare. This is not going to stop because the US navy killed 3 pirates. If anything the problem becomes worse. I have heard the pirates are already threatening revenge.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Totally agree.

They have no form of government. That whole area is chaos and guerrilla warfare. This is not going to stop because the US navy killed 3 pirates. If anything the problem becomes worse. I have heard the pirates are already threatening revenge.

Revenge? Good grief.

There needs to be an international group of warships routinely patrolling the area and eliminating these folks before they do any more damage.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Revenge? Good grief.

There needs to be an international group of warships routinely patrolling the area and eliminating these folks before they do any more damage.

Uh well as nice as that would be that doesn't really stop anything. Countries need to go in there and crack some skulls and get some form of government installed in these countries or the cycle of violence will continue. :/

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Uh well as nice as that would be that doesn't really stop anything. Countries need to go in there and crack some skulls and get some form of government installed in these countries or the cycle of violence will continue. :/

You can bet that the rules of engagement are being looked at right now. Instead of trying to chase off boats full of armed men, the naval forces there are going to be shooting first and examining the bodies later.

From what I read the Pirates have gained between 50 and 80 million dollars in ransoms, thats now becoming a real hinderance. The gloves are going to come off.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those nice Pirate leader mansions are going to eat cruise missiles.