Alberta budget 2009

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Enough to make NG $11/GJ again?

$11? unlikely. $7-9, maybe.

[FireFly]

My favorite part is that they're restructuring health care (again or still?) so that it costs more... Now, I'm pretty sure the point of restructuring was because costs are out of control, so why they up the budget again is beyond me. You cut out a whole whack of things that are covered now, and yet it's still going up. Is it just me or does the math on that seem funny?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by llama64

Bonehead move #1: Alberta's insistance to vote the EXACT SAME party into office for over three decades.

Ultimately the responsiblilty lies with the voters. Don't like what you see, don't vote for them.

Don't pretend for a second that the NDP and the Liberals would have us in surplus territory right now with as small a debt load as we do now. Fixing the overspending has been a drum that has been beating from real fiscal conservatives in this province for some time. Taft and Mason have had two elections to provide alternative platforms that didn't involve bigger government and spending more money, but rather a reigning in of spending. I can't blame the Alberta population for not voting those clowns into office. What the Liberal party really needs is not a superficial name change but rather a heart transplant where a Laurence Decore type tries to out conserve the conservatives, not a doctor who wants to hamper business, raise taxes, and increase the size of the civil service.

If a party in Alberta wants to get elected they have to actually be inline with the will of the people and not bash the public for not buying into unpalatable ideas. The government should be in power to serve us the people, not to tell us where the bear s&^ts. We should be a province with a government and not a government with a province.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FireFly

My favorite part is that they're restructuring health care (again or still?) so that it costs more... Now, I'm pretty sure the point of restructuring was because costs are out of control, so why they up the budget again is beyond me. You cut out a whole whack of things that are covered now, and yet it's still going up. Is it just me or does the math on that seem funny?

Also makes one wonder why they got rid of health care premiums in the first place.

[Bobblehead]

I think this is the result of a number of issues.

1) A populace that won't vote for anyone else
2) A leadership race where the 2 front runners were so polarizing that the supporters of each voted for anyone other than their opponent (would we be here if either Dinning or Morton won?)
3) A previous leader who cut programs to the bone (as he needed to do) but didn't have a plan in place to catch up when the fiscal crunch ended. You can only repair assets for so long before maintenance costs are greater than replacement costs.

And here we are.

[Frequitude]

What's the best path towards becoming Premier of this province?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Don't pretend for a second that the NDP and the Liberals would have us in surplus territory right now with as small a debt load as we do now. Fixing the overspending has been a drum that has been beating from real fiscal conservatives in this province for some time. Taft and Mason have had two elections to provide alternative platforms that didn't involve bigger government and spending more money, but rather a reigning in of spending. I can't blame the Alberta population for not voting those clowns into office. What the Liberal party really needs is not a superficial name change but rather a heart transplant where a Laurence Decore type tries to out conserve the conservatives, not a doctor who wants to hamper business, raise taxes, and increase the size of the civil service.

If a party in Alberta wants to get elected they have to actually be inline with the will of the people and not bash the public for not buying into unpalatable ideas. The government should be in power to serve us the people, not to tell us where the bear s&^ts. We should be a province with a government and not a government with a province.

I think you seriously overestimate the average Albertan voter. I think in rural Alberta in particular, there is a very strong socalist streak. People got greedy watching the oilpatch and its employees raking in the cash, and decided they wanted someone to stick it to the man at precisely the wrong time.

A Lawrence Decore/Peter Lougheed/Jim Dinning type would be ideal, but would people actually accept this person, and which party would support him/her?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

Right the government shouldn't be spending, but somehow he implies that cutting taxes will somehow balance the budget.

Cutting taxes will indirectly provide more growth in the economy because the oil companies have more money to invest.

Thats the whole 'point.'

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Azure

Cutting taxes will indirectly provide more growth in the economy because the oil companies have more money to invest.

Thats the whole 'point.'

Now that would all depend on where on the Laffer curve you believe Alberta to be on. On royalties, without a doubt there would be more to gain from reverting back to the old rates. In land sales alone they would make more revenue (Which is really why I thought they were off their rocker back then, it indicated to me that the finance department really did not understand their revenue stream). On personal and corporate taxes it would be really hard to say.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by llama64

Bonehead move #1: Alberta's insistance to vote the EXACT SAME party into office for over three decades.

Ultimately the responsiblilty lies with the voters. Don't like what you see, don't vote for them.

Yep, that is the worst part.

We deserve the government we got.

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Don't pretend for a second that the NDP and the Liberals would have us in surplus territory right now with as small a debt load as we do now. Fixing the overspending has been a drum that has been beating from real fiscal conservatives in this province for some time. Taft and Mason have had two elections to provide alternative platforms that didn't involve bigger government and spending more money, but rather a reigning in of spending. I can't blame the Alberta population for not voting those clowns into office. What the Liberal party really needs is not a superficial name change but rather a heart transplant where a Laurence Decore type tries to out conserve the conservatives, not a doctor who wants to hamper business, raise taxes, and increase the size of the civil service.

If a party in Alberta wants to get elected they have to actually be inline with the will of the people and not bash the public for not buying into unpalatable ideas. The government should be in power to serve us the people, not to tell us where the bear s&^ts. We should be a province with a government and not a government with a province.

The Alberta government spends more per capita than Ontario, BC, NS, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan. Also, I'm not lending support to any particular political party, but we have seen the Federal Liberals lead many surpluses under Paul Martin, and the Saskatchewan NDP run surpluses under Calvert and Romanow. In Saskatchewan's case, it was actually the hayseed conservatives of Grant Devine that pretty much bankrupted the province and left a huge wave of corruption scandles in their wake.

And I say all this as someone who is a lifelong conservative voter.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by llama64

If people want to destroy their health with poor diet, drug abuse and other such vices, go right ahead. Just don't expect us to pay for your medical problems later on in life.

Well, I doubt 'junk food' is ever going to be taxed....so like it or not, our tax dollars are going to keep paying the health care bills for those 5% of the population that see a need in draining 90% of the resources in the system.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

It was a conservative "wait and see" budget imo
Alberta should be praying for a bad hurricane season as that will bring the price up for oil again

Oil will jump again once the summer months come....but I wonder if it'll go back up to $80/bbl, where we run a decent surplus.

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oil will jump again once the summer months come....but I wonder if it'll go back up to $80/bbl, where we run a decent surplus.

It's going to $200: http://theburningplatform.com/econom...sult---200-oil

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

A Lawrence Decore/Peter Lougheed/Jim Dinning type would be ideal, but would people actually accept this person, and which party would support him/her?

Absolutely...if the campaigns could successfully rally the urban vote.

That's the only reason Stelmach won the leadership race. Rural and Northern Alberta were so finished with city slickers and Calgary boys, that they hit the polls in masses. Heck, these communities had the school bus drivers doing runs on election night. I'm pretty sure more people voted in Lac la Biche than some Calgary ridings. Lac La freakin Biche.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Now that would all depend on where on the Laffer curve you believe Alberta to be on. On royalties, without a doubt there would be more to gain from reverting back to the old rates. In land sales alone they would make more revenue (Which is really why I thought they were off their rocker back then, it indicated to me that the finance department really did not understand their revenue stream). On personal and corporate taxes it would be really hard to say.

I really don't care about personal taxes. Corporate taxes could be lowered a tad bit, but the big money is in the oil sands, and the oil companies are being screwed over by the stupid royalty rates, and as a result, Alberta is losing money.

Then again, this is the government we're talking about....and despite our outrage, we're not exactly 'loosing' money here. We'll still have billions lying around in the Heritage Fund after 2009. Even after 2010, 2011, and 2012 at this rate.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

The Alberta government spends more per capita than Ontario, BC, NS, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan. Also, I'm not lending support to any particular political party, but we have seen the Federal Liberals lead many surpluses under Paul Martin, and the Saskatchewan NDP run surpluses under Calvert and Romanow. In Saskatchewan's case, it was actually the hayseed conservatives of Grant Devine that pretty much bankrupted the province and left a huge wave of corruption scandles in their wake.

And I say all this as someone who is a lifelong conservative voter.

Again, its really not the 'liberal' name that is the problem, but the platform they present. I would 'gladly' vote Liberal if they presented a fiscally responsible, socially liberal platform.

Gladly.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

It's going to $200: http://theburningplatform.com/econom...sult---200-oil

At $200/bbl, Alberta could afford its own military.

Along with a few F-22s to boot.

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by Azure

At $200/bbl, Alberta could afford its own military.

Along with a few F-22s to boot.

We'd probably need them.

Maybe time to plan for some missile installations around Ft. Mac as well.

[Frequitude]

Its good to see this thread kick up the political sparring. It's been a while. I was getting worried there with the slow start.