N Korea launches THE rocket

[peter12]

I can't imagine anyone is happy with this. Even N. Korea's Chinese "semi-allies" have got to be searching for a way to slap Kim Jong back into his place. Absolutely insane.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

From what I have read, any sort of military engagement with North Korea could be a disaster.

North Korea has 1.19 million active troops and 7.70 million reserve troops. Up to 3500 tanks with an additional 2500 armored vehicles, about 10000 total ground artillery, and 11000 anti-air artillery.

All told, the world would rather not fight them and that gives North Korea some leverage. Unfortunately.

All of this stuff would probably be akin to the WW2 armies of Russia. Old equipment, mediocre training, probably would be made into mincemeat against the modern armies of China, S. Korea and the USA.

I believe the real problem is that the N. Koreans have all their artillery aimed at Seoul. In the event of a true military engagement, the N. Koreans would be able to pound the S. Korean capital into rubble before any true Western response could be mounted.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

All of this stuff would probably be akin to the WW2 armies of Russia. Old equipment, mediocre training, probably would be made into mincemeat against the modern armies of China, S. Korea and the USA.

I believe the real problem is that the N. Koreans have all their artillery aimed at Seoul. In the event of a true military engagement, the N. Koreans would be able to pound the S. Korean capital into rubble before any true Western response could be mounted.

Your right in a lot of ways, their main battle tanks are composed of a mix of mainly T55's with a smattering of T-62s and even about 500 WWII era T34's. Their armoured vehicles are 60's and 70's BTR's and their own home made M-1973.

Technology wise armour to armour they would get slaughtered. But NK has a significant edge in Artillary which is fairly modern and Anti-Air defense that would make it tough for the American's and their allies to be able to provide battlefield support which is usually a big edge for the Americans and a requirement.

On a technology front, your probably right, it would be a mis-match. But in terms of their sheer numbers, in terms of their artillary edge and their static air defense which composes of SA-14's 16's and the SA-7 the American's would have a lot of trouble. Add in fighting a desparate enemy fighting in their home land with a willingness to probably poison their own people to use chemical and biological warfare and you have a fairly even battle where the NK have the shorter logistical train.

The big unknown would be China's intentions, my guess is that they would jump in to defend NK and take the opportunity to depose of the government in place and install a client state.

There's also the choke points in land access thats been zero'd in by NK fixed extremely heavy guns, the factor of dealing with the man killing winters and NK heavy re-enforcement of possible amphib landings by the marines and its a battle that I would never want to fight.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by peter12

All of this stuff would probably be akin to the WW2 armies of Russia. Old equipment, mediocre training, probably would be made into mincemeat against the modern armies of China, S. Korea and the USA.

I believe the real problem is that the N. Koreans have all their artillery aimed at Seoul. In the event of a true military engagement, the N. Koreans would be able to pound the S. Korean capital into rubble before any true Western response could be mounted.

Apparently the equipment used by North Korea, while being far from modern, has been significantly updated and upgraded from the original equipment.

...and you hit the nail on the head about South Korea. South Korea would be essentially destroyed before the US could do anything. Almost all of those many artillery units are constantly aimed at various targets of importance in South Korea.

It is likely that in the end it would be possible to defeat North Korea but the issue is that the cost would be far too high. North Korea is a very mountainous country and much of its military and weapon production capability is based underground and thus insulated from most types of attack.

These factors, again, give North Korea leverage in its dealings with the rest of the world and that is truly unfortunate.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Apparently the equipment used by North Korea, while being far from modern, has been significantly updated and upgraded from the original equipment.

...and you hit the nail on the head about South Korea. South Korea would be essentially destroyed before the US could do anything. Almost all of those many artillery units are constantly aimed at various targets of importance in South Korea.

It is likely that in the end it would be possible to defeat North Korea but the issue is that the cost would be far too high. North Korea is a very mountainous country and much of its military and weapon production capability is based underground and thus insulated from most types of attack.

These factors, again, give North Korea leverage in its dealings with the rest of the world and that is truly unfortunate.

I totally understand that. In fact, if I recall my Korean War history, after the N. Koreans had pulled out of the South and was dug into the mountains, they were so heavily entrenched that the UN was considering atomic bomb strikes as the only effective means to knock them out of their fortifications.

That said, Western militaries are always underestimated. The strike capabilities by a battle-hardened and well-equipped American force would probably have a greater effect than most would predict. I suppose the real problem would be the probable high casualties.

Right now, I think this is the Chinese's mess to dissolve and I can imagine that pressure is being applied at the highest level by Western governments.

[Azure]

I still think it should have been shot down.

Obama is relying on the UN to 'help' him, as well as NATO, and the countries involved there are willing to just send it to committee and let it die there.

North Korea can now launch anything they frickin' want. Who is going to stop them? Calling them to refrain from any 'provocative acts' is like telling a schoolyard bully from picking on you because you don't like it.

The US is going to have to deal with them anyways down the road.

Interesting that Obama has been President for 2 months and already North Korea is willing to send things over the edge to see what his resolve is.

EDIT: Or they did. Didn't they set off a nuke in 2006? I completely plumb forgot about it.

Ignore the part about Bush.

[Shazam]

Just waft the scent of soondubu over the front lines and the soldiers will seek asylum in seconds.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

I totally understand that. In fact, if I recall my Korean War history, after the N. Koreans had pulled out of the South and was dug into the mountains, they were so heavily entrenched that the UN was considering atomic bomb strikes as the only effective means to knock them out of their fortifications.

Actually thats a misunderstood piece of the war. The American commander MacArthur wanted use atomic bombs in China to break up the logistics supply, break up Chinese re-enforcements waiting to leap forward and show China America's resolve.

I think that people also forget that the Korean war except for some flurries of activity (Initial invasion, NK retreat, Allies attack into NK, Allies retreat) was almost WWI in its execution in that both sides really dug in and except for small unit attacks wanted to wait for the end of the war and the re-establishment of the border.

Originally Posted by peter12

That said, Western militaries are always underestimated. The strike capabilities by a battle-hardened and well-equipped American force would probably have a greater effect than most would predict. I suppose the real problem would be the probable high casualties.

And North Korea understands that, you would though likely see some mass battles at the start with Korean intending to inflict mass and horrible casualties which means that they would shoot their bolt in the first days of the war. You'd see Biological and chemical attacks and if they have them nuclear attacks aimed at allied troops and at large civillian casualties. It would be up to the American's if they would respond in kind, but I doubt that any American president would risk slaughtering NK's civilians in that kind of numbers. The NK have the will to use civilians as human shields as well.

Originally Posted by peter12

Right now, I think this is the Chinese's mess to dissolve and I can imagine that pressure is being applied at the highest level by Western governments.

Your right about this. I'm amazed that they haven't tried to zap Kim yet

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I figure Japan will be the ones who really push this to resolution. They can't be happy about the prospect of the Korea's going at it with them caught between the US and China.

Sort of like Canada being in between Russia and America....

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Sort of like Canada being in between Russia and America....

Except Canada was a willing and active ally of the United States during the Cold War.

[CrusaderPi]

You don't think Japan is a willing ally of the US right now?

[flamingreen]

I always thought Vice's guide to North Korea a fascinating look into the country.

Probably NSFW
http://www.vbs.tv/shows.php?show=1442318652

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

I still think it should have been shot down.

Agreed. Maybe they didn't because things would be worse had they tried and failed?

[Finny61]

Matt Damon

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SebC

Agreed. Maybe they didn't because things would be worse had they tried and failed?

I don't think they would fail. The Aegis system has shown to be quite capable of shooting down those rockets.

Either way, the launch failed and NK is blaming Japan/US/Russia/SK for shooting it down.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think they would fail. The Aegis system has shown to be quite capable of shooting down those rockets.

Either way, the launch failed and NK is blaming Japan/US/Russia/SK for shooting it down.

When the hell did Saskatchewan get defensive missile capability? Those flatlanders are up to something.