Legalized Rape in Afghanistan

[FlamesAddiction]

Half a point for Stephen Harper for acknowledging this as a problem.

Full marks if he accomplishes more than just lip service to the media.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Now I'm not much of a theist **Pulls on the suspenders**. But to attribute this to Islam as a whole is wrong. Like any religion there are moderate liberal thinkers and hardlined fundamentalist sh1theads. ......

The problem once again with this type of response is, the moderates in any religion need to control the "supposed" small percentage of hardliners so they dont color the whole thing red...so to speak. Unfortunately the way every Bible, Torah, Quran is written leaves many holes for the hardliners to pre-suppose whatever they want into the tome. They are written by man after all. The fact that many good people are led down the garden path doesnt make a bad thing any better.

Quran Surah 2: The Cow

1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6
2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10
3. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24
4. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90
5. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104
6. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114
7. Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126
8. The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162
9. They will not emerge from the Fire. 167
10. Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174
11. How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175
12. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191
13. War is ordained by Allah. 216
14. Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217
15. Disbelievers worship false gods. They will burn forever in the Fire. 257
16. Allah does not guide disbelievers. 264
17. "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 286

Quran Surah 3: The Family Of 'Imran

1. Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 4
2. Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 10
3. Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 12
4. Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 21
5. Theirs will be a painful doom. 77
6. All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 85

Quran Surah 4: Women

1. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14
2. For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18
3. For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37
4. Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55
5. Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56
6. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74
7. Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76
8. Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89
9. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by photon

Because forcing himself on her physically would be wrong, but coercing her by threat of divorce (who knows how bad that would be over there) or other psychological abuse is ok.

Maybe just maybe, if the women's husband would threaten divorce because of her refusal to have sex she would be better off without him.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Cheese

The problem once again with this type of response is, the moderates in any religion need to control the "supposed" small percentage of hardliners so they dont color the whole thing red...so to speak. Unfortunately the way every Bible, Torah, Quran is written leaves many holes for the hardliners to pre-suppose whatever they want into the tome. They are written by man after all. The fact that many good people are led down the garden path doesnt make a bad thing any better.

Quran Surah 2: The Cow

1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6
2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10
3. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24
4. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90
5. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104
6. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114
7. Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126
8. The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162
9. They will not emerge from the Fire. 167
10. Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174
11. How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175
12. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191
13. War is ordained by Allah. 216
14. Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217
15. Disbelievers worship false gods. They will burn forever in the Fire. 257
16. Allah does not guide disbelievers. 264
17. "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 286

Quran Surah 3: The Family Of 'Imran

1. Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 4
2. Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 10
3. Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 12
4. Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 21
5. Theirs will be a painful doom. 77
6. All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 85

Quran Surah 4: Women

1. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14
2. For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18
3. For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37
4. Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55
5. Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56
6. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74
7. Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76
8. Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89
9. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91

Its awfully easy to cherry pick all the bad lines and leave everything else out.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its awfully easy to cherry pick all the bad lines and leave everything else out.

Its awfully easy to cherry pick all the good lines and leave everything else out.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its awfully easy to cherry pick all the good lines and leave everything else out.

Except he didn't cherry pick any lines, and never left anything else out.

I've never read the Koran, but I figure its really similar to how the Bible is written....meaning someone could pick and choose certain lines and use it to serve their agenda.

And like the Bible....the religions that follow it have their extremists, and their non-extremists.

Personally I think its a bigger problem that the moderate community is being so quiet about this.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Azure

I've never read the Koran, but I figure its really similar to how the Bible is written....meaning someone could pick and choose certain lines and use it to serve their agenda.

So you're making a blind guess? You should read it.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Azure

Except he didn't cherry pick any lines, and never left anything else out.

Yeah, burn_this_city didn't cherry pick at all. Easily the best and most solid post I've seen him write on CP.

I've never read the Koran, but I figure its really similar to how the Bible is written....meaning someone could pick and choose certain lines and use it to serve their agenda.

And like the Bible....the religions that follow it have their extremists, and their non-extremists.

I picked up a Koran at McNally Robinson one day and turned to a random page which said "Do not befriend the Jews or Christians for they are unholy and not to be trusted."

I turned to another random page, and something else along those lines came up.

A third, same.

A fourth, same.

After turning to the fifth random page which included some rant about how Allah condems the killing of non-believers, I shut the book, put it down, and walked away probably a lot more racist than I was before I picked it up.

To borrow a phrase from someone I knew like 10 years ago...I say nuke the s.

Personally I think its a bigger problem that the moderate community is being so quiet about this.

If the moderates have no backbone and their neighbours can be turned on them in an instant (using mob mentality and such) then who would want to stand up to them? Especially if they can make you just dissappear?

Islam is a fundamentally weak religion.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its awfully easy to cherry pick all the bad lines and leave everything else out.

LOL...sorry I actually did laugh out loud there a bit.

Are you saying you just ignore ALL the bad parts and only read the good ones? What would happen if your personal Mullah suggested you start acting on some of the pieces I posted above? Ignore that too? Change Mullahs?

[burn_this_city]

If you actually read my post I said I'm no theist. I was merely defending against the smear campaign people devour from the media. Every religion has some questionable scripture. I'm not going to sit here and cherry pick things to prove my point. If you'd actually post the entire thing you wouldnt be able to paint such a savage picture. But I guess its hard to make your point if thats the case.

[burn_this_city]

Cheese likes to use the worst translation possible.. Heres the full version without obvious cherry picking..

This is the second Surah called The Cow.

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/2.htm

I'm not religious. I just hate seeing people gang up on something they really have no clue about.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Yeah, burn_this_city didn't cherry pick at all. Easily the best and most solid post I've seen him write on CP.



I picked up a Koran at McNally Robinson one day and turned to a random page which said "Do not befriend the Jews or Christians for they are unholy and not to be trusted."

I turned to another random page, and something else along those lines came up.

A third, same.

A fourth, same.

After turning to the fifth random page which included some rant about how Allah condems the killing of non-believers, I shut the book, put it down, and walked away probably a lot more racist than I was before I picked it up.

To borrow a phrase from someone I knew like 10 years ago...I say nuke the s.



If the moderates have no backbone and their neighbours can be turned on them in an instant (using mob mentality and such) then who would want to stand up to them? Especially if they can make you just dissappear?

Islam is a fundamentally weak religion.

Fundamentally weak religion? What, exactly, is that supposed to mean? It's less of a religion than Christianity?

The Koran also states:

Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians, and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

Etc, etc. Like any other religious book, it's filled with good and bad, and a lot that is contradictory. The Holy Bible also states to rape women and take child brides, it's not as if this kind of ridiculous talk is exclusive to the Koran.

My girlfriend is Muslim and was taught a largely pacifist brand of Islam. She doesn't want to kill me, and I'm a filthy Agnostic. Nuke them, lol. I would love to insult you right now, but I don't want an infraction. Needless to say, I won't take seriously another dumb ass word you type on here.

[HPLovecraft]

The Lord is a man of war.

And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Guess what holy book that's from? Yeesh.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Fundamentally weak religion? What, exactly, is that supposed to mean? It's less of a religion than Christianity?

As in the majority of the participants in their native homeland are repressed and forced to live a lifestyle that is unfair, unhumane, and completely devoid of free-will?

In a word, yes.

The Koran also states:

Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians, and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

Which comes off to me sounding like as long as you believe in Allah even for one day at the end all is well.

Sounds about right. Each religion has its own cop-out come the last day anyway.

Etc, etc. Like any other religious book, it's filled with good and bad, and a lot that is contradictory. The Holy Bible also states to rape women and take child brides, it's not as if this kind of ridiculous talk is exclusive to the Koran.

Except mainstream Christians have been over that for hundreds of years, where as it is now 2009 (TWO THOUSAND AND EFFING NINE, MAN!) and this is still prevalent in mainstream Islam.

So I stand by my point that in roughly equal time, Islam is still in the dark-ages and Christianity is not.

My girlfriend is Muslim and was taught a largely pacifist brand of Islam. She doesn't want to kill me, and I'm a filthy Agnostic. Nuke them, lol. I would love to insult you right now, but I don't want an infraction. Needless to say, I won't take seriously another dumb ass word you type on here.

Your perogative.

BTW, does she still have her clitoris?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

Personally I think its a bigger problem that the moderate community is being so quiet about this.

How so? A friend of mine organized a large conference related to the issue of violence in the Muslim world. There were great speakers. I was the audio-visual guy that put together a DVD of the conference and I thought it was well put together. At this conference violence and terrorism was decried and it was stated that they have to find ways to stop the violence before they can make any advances in economics, education and health. And despite being advertised in all the local papers and around all the local campuses, the only white people that showed up were myself, 2 speakers and 5 students that were ordered to go by their "International Development" professor. There are Muslims that are speaking out against the violence... they just don't have the abilities of the mass media so in many ways they end up talking to themselves. I don't know exactly how you would like them to speak out, but I'm all ears.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Cheese likes to use the worst translation possible.. Heres the full version without obvious cherry picking..

This is the second Surah called The Cow.

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/2.htm

I'm not religious. I just hate seeing people gang up on something they really have no clue about.

ROFLMAO....like you have a clue about anything I do?
The worst translation is a translation that is used by fundamentalists to base their actions by. But then Im sure you are a cleric and understand everything better anyways. There are literally hundreds of ways one can translate that document...same with the bible or any other holy book. Thats the problem and thats what I was getting at.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Cheese

ROFLMAO....like you have a clue about anything I do?
The worst translation is a translation that is used by fundamentalists to base their actions by. But then Im sure you are a cleric and understand everything better anyways. There are literally hundreds of ways one can translate that document...same with the bible or any other holy book. Thats the problem and thats what I was getting at.

You can put a negative spin on almost anything by omitting parts that give it context. Just because some lunatics hijack a portion of it to suit their agenda doesnt make the whole thing bad.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Maybe just maybe, if the women's husband would threaten divorce because of her refusal to have sex she would be better off without him.

Sure, though is that even an option for her? If she gets divorced, can she get a job? Will she be able to remarry? If society basically gives her no choice and the law says she has no choice, it's still coercion.

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

As in the majority of the participants in their native homeland are repressed and forced to live a lifestyle that is unfair, unhumane, and completely devoid of free-will?

Except mainstream Christians have been over that for hundreds of years, where as it is now 2009 (TWO THOUSAND AND EFFING NINE, MAN!) and this is still prevalent in mainstream Islam.

So I stand by my point that in roughly equal time, Islam is still in the dark-ages and Christianity is not.

I think that has less to do with the religion itself and more to do simply with the socioeconomic development of the countries those religions have been in. Education, literacy, health, etc..

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

How so? A friend of mine organized a large conference related to the issue of violence in the Muslim world. There were great speakers. I was the audio-visual guy that put together a DVD of the conference and I thought it was well put together. At this conference violence and terrorism was decried and it was stated that they have to find ways to stop the violence before they can make any advances in economics, education and health. And despite being advertised in all the local papers and around all the local campuses, the only white people that showed up were myself, 2 speakers and 5 students that were ordered to go by their "International Development" professor. There are Muslims that are speaking out against the violence... they just don't have the abilities of the mass media so in many ways they end up talking to themselves. I don't know exactly how you would like them to speak out, but I'm all ears.

I don't see you disagreeing with Azure here. You have detailed one event of a greater problem. Where was the media? Why were so many others apathetic to this event, yet when Hezbollah and Answer organize an event they get masses of white kids screaming for blood? Why are the head-hackers so much better supported?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by photon

I think that has less to do with the religion itself and more to do simply with the socioeconomic development of the countries those religions have been in. Education, literacy, health, etc..

Fair enough, but Christianity was at one point in those same socioeconomic conditions once as well in Europe (and was just as bad as Islam is now) but it managed to evolve itself into something that while far from perfect, is light-years better than where it was.

And it did it without things like electricity, automobiles, computers, tanks/planes etc etc etc to help it. Like I said, it was far from perfect, and before Christianity came to the place it is today (still far from perfect, mind you) it was responsible for generation upon generation of horrible genocides (like the Catholic Church with the Inquisition, for example) but the idea is that in 2009 we're not driven by fear and ignorance. We have access to infinite amounts of information. Balance between immediate reality and religion is paramount. Think Star Trek, for example.

In light of this I have no problem with spending tax dollars to bring justice to the peoples who suffer under Extremist Islamic (or any other extremist religion's) rule on removing those currently and forever-more in-power through force if needed.

I find it ridiculous that these atrocities are allowed to continue when everyone in the world knows about it.