Mexico's Drug War - Photos

[DementedReality]

part of my (former :-( ) job involved establishing relationships in all the countries our clients needed our services in ... anyhow, one of my contacts in Mexico had his brother kidnapped and some pretty gory stuff was done to his body. All in the name of the drug war.

scary stuff.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by peter12

Read "The Moral Sense" by James Q. Wilson. The guy makes a devastating critique of legalization of hard, addictive drugs.

I am a pretty libertarian person, I used to believe in the legalization of all drugs. This book totally changed my opinion, except in the case of marijuana and some hallucinogens. Wilson does not revert to moralizing but makes an explicit cost/benefit argument against legalization. Read it!

My next batch of amazon books I'll definitely pick that up, your the 2nd person recommend that to me.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm not a fan of any drug but legalizing pot would help and making it a major crime to even get caught with the hardcore drugs (coke,herein..etc) might help somewhat. I know a girl that got caught with a gram of coke and the cop just squished it on the ground. Is she worried about having major drugs on her? As a matter of fack she was late for a party that night because she had to hunt down more.

The drug trade and turf war is fueled by money. There is a high profit margin in drugs because they are a scarce/inaccesible commodity. You legalize a drug, it no longer becomes as scarce/inaccessible, and the profit margin shrinks considerably. So instead of dealing in the softer, legalized drug, the dealer adapts by selling the harder drugs with the high profit margin. The drug trade and violent turf wars continue.

[Jake]

^ I disagree. That theory assumes that the demand for hard drugs would increase. The dealer may switch to dealing harder drugs if weed is legalized, but there may be no one to sell them too. Combining the legalization of weed with more drug education, while continuing the war against drug lords may be very effective. Some drug lords may quit and others would make less money, which would make them considerably easier to fight.

I wouldn't even consider legalizing coke, heroin, e, crystal meth and other hard drugs. The impact those drugs have goes way beyond destroying the person who takes them. Weed on the other hand... well I've seen a hell of a lot more alcohol related violence and death.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

The drug trade and turf war is fueled by money. There is a high profit margin in drugs because they are a scarce/inaccesible commodity. You legalize a drug, it no longer becomes as scarce/inaccessible, and the profit margin shrinks considerably. So instead of dealing in the softer, legalized drug, the dealer adapts by selling the harder drugs with the high profit margin. The drug trade and violent turf wars continue.

I thought what I posted made it clear, make it tough for the users on hard drugs and take away the profits for minor drugs...glad we feel the same way

P.S. why doesn't the multiquote work on this board?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Jake

^ I disagree. That theory assumes that the demand for hard drugs would increase. The dealer may switch to dealing harder drugs if weed is legalized, but there may be no one to sell them too. Combining the legalization of weed with more drug education, while continuing the war against drug lords may be very effective. Some drug lords may quit and others would make less money, which would make them considerably easier to fight.

I wouldn't even consider legalizing coke, heroin, e, crystal meth and other hard drugs. The impact those drugs have goes way beyond destroying the person who takes them. Weed on the other hand... well I've seen a hell of a lot more alcohol related violence and death.

There is evidence that if supply were opened up to more hard drugs, the demand would increase significantly.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is evidence that if supply were opened up to more hard drugs, the demand would increase significantly.

See this is the problem I have with this, in most cases yes a slight increase occurs because of legalization.

However if you today decide heroin or cocaine are to be legalized, you won't just wake up the day after legalization and say "HEY lets go do heroin and coke."

I've been in this drug debate for 10yrs, and I've heard mostly from the pro drug groups because of my own website and its movement, but I certainly think at minnimum Marijuana and Mushrooms should be legalized and taxed.

The tougher arguments start at cocaine, but really the tough part is Heroin and Meth.

However we currently legalize Heroin, Oxycontin is a VERY powerful drug and its legal. Its also highly addictive.

But the problem I have is its legal and heroin isn't. One is supported by regular doctor exams/advice while the other is not.

The old adage marijuana is a gateway drug has been repeatedly destroyed as an argument, because if that was valid, milk or beer could be also claimed to be 'gateways' to harder drugs.

So my problem is we allow MASSIVE profits to drug cartels, while spending MASSIVE amounts on the fight against them.

We will not remove drug use from society.
We will not have a drug war stop unless we legalize it.
We will not see non drug users all of a sudden decide, oh its legal? lets go do heroin.

So my problem is that drug war is morality war, its taking away TONS of money we could use in our health care system, education, or absolutely anything else.

Lets at least legalize marijuana and mushrooms, move on from there. Eventually we remove 80-90% of the criminal gangs of the world and legalize all of it under government controls.

That seems the most logical way to go, I've not heard a good reason to keep up this losing fight, we did figure out Vietnam wasn't winnable and we left, why do we keep up a war against personal choice in drugs when its obvious its always going to fail.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I'm still not sure about the marijuana debate either. Pretty tame drug, sure. But do we really want a society full of people getting high a lot? What are the repercussions of that? Not so sure it would be positive.

We are in a society full of people getting high a lot.

Anyone who wants to smoke weed already does it. I guess the convenience of buying it at Shoppers instead of going to some guy's smelly apartment would make things easier for the consumer, but if he wants some weed, he'll buy it either way.

And here are a couple logical fallacies for anyone interested in playing that card:

1) I don't believe there are many people out there who don't currently smoke weed but would start if it became legal.

2) I don't smoke the stuff because I don't like it, not because it is illegal or because it costs too much. I think most people are probably of a similar mind.

Those may not stand up in The Court of Internet Guys Who Took Logic And Might Know Some Latin, but they are probably true enough.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by T@T

P.S. why doesn't the multiquote work on this board?

It does. Hit the multi quote button of all the quotes you want selected, except the last one where you just hit 'quote'.

Should bring them all up.

[Azure]

Far as I'm concerned, there is only one argument regarding weed.

"Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean the government should be restricting the rights of someone else to do something that isn't any worse than drugs that are currently legal."

Like Advil.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm fine with legalizing grass and stopping there.

but to me legalizing means, that you tax the sh$t our of anyone making revenue from it, that means that all people growing it have to register and submit to inspections based around the quality control of the product.

The distributors who transport the stuff.

It has to be sold in liquor stores, or in specialized drug stores.

Same rules apply as liquor. Huge fines if you sell it to someone under the age of 18. Also its treated the same as intoxicants, that means toking and driving is completely out, toking or showing up at work stoned means your fired with no legal help.

If your an adult and your caught selling it outside of legal means, its jail, if your selling it to kids below the legal age its even more jail.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

We are in a society full of people getting high a lot.

Anyone who wants to smoke weed already does it. I guess the convenience of buying it at Shoppers instead of going to some guy's smelly apartment would make things easier for the consumer, but if he wants some weed, he'll buy it either way.

And here are a couple logical fallacies for anyone interested in playing that card:

1) I don't believe there are many people out there who don't currently smoke weed but would start if it became legal.

2) I don't smoke the stuff because I don't like it, not because it is illegal or because it costs too much. I think most people are probably of a similar mind.

Those may not stand up in The Court of Internet Guys Who Took Logic And Might Know Some Latin, but they are probably true enough.

I have a bit of an issue with this arguement. Why wouldn't they? Legalization gives it a form of legitimization. When things are illegal, there is at least the knowledge that "hey, this is something society as a whole deems to be inappropriate". Sure many people might do it anyways. Now if weed became legal, I'm pretty sure some people would think "hey, its legal now, maybe I should try it now that I can't get into any trouble".

Laws are there for a reason, they are a deterrent. We would essentially be taking that deterrent away. I think that would cause for an increase in usage.

Even the simple fact that people could go to a "shoppers" as you put it, the convienence alone would result in more users. There are probably some people that would dont want to go to that smelly apartment, and now that they dont have to, their usage would increase.

I'm still undecided as to how I feel about legalization of marijuana, but I do think usage would definitely increase if we did it. I can't see any way usage would shrink or stay the same.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I have a bit of an issue with this arguement. Why wouldn't they? Legalization gives it a form of legitimization. When things are illegal, there is at least the knowledge that "hey, this is something society as a whole deems to be inappropriate". Sure many people might do it anyways. Now if weed became legal, I'm pretty sure some people would think "hey, its legal now, maybe I should try it now that I can't get into any trouble".

Laws are there for a reason, they are a deterrent. We would essentially be taking that deterrent away. I think that would cause for an increase in usage.

Even the simple fact that people could go to a "shoppers" as you put it, the convienence alone would result in more users. There are probably some people that would dont want to go to that smelly apartment, and now that they dont have to, their usage would increase.

I'm still undecided as to how I feel about legalization of marijuana, but I do think usage would definitely increase if we did it. I can't see any way usage would shrink or stay the same.

I see what you are saying, but things like smoking and alcohol would be something society also deems to be inappropriate, yet it continues to be legal.

[Locke]

It occurs to me that Mexico really let this problem get out of hand before they decided to do something about it.

I mean hey, I like a good drug war as much as the next guy, but who did Mexico think they were? Colombia?

[burn_this_city]

I surprised theres no pics of Jiri in that photo spread.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I surprised theres no pics of Jiri in that photo spread.

What're you talking about? #6.

[burn_this_city]

I guess I always assumed he'd be more disheveled than that.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

1) I don't believe there are many people out there who don't currently smoke weed but would start if it became legal.

.

actually ... the reason i dont smoke it is because i have no idea where to get it. if i could go to the store and get it, i would.

so i guess i am one non smoker due to its availability.