You're welcome. Just a heads up there is another one on at 8am on Wednesday morning called "Saturn's Secrets" about what lies beneath Saturn's atmosphere.
Also, the Discovery channel had another show on a week ago or so that you might like if it ever comes on again. It was a 2 hour documentary called "Journey to the Edge of the Universe". It was set up like a travel log or something that pretended you were the passenger on a ship or a satellite and you travelled from Earth all the way out to the edge of the universe, stopping at all of the "hot spots" on the way. It was really awesome, even on my regular SD tv. http://www.discoverychannel.ca/Article.aspx?aid=14316
Wow, that sounds pretty interesting. Dissapointed I missed the one you mention but will certainly tune into the one on Saturn.
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Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay
I see. I guess where I'm really not thinking straight is reading into the big bang part to literally. I thought the theory once stated that all matter in the universe was once all formed up into a ball. Boom! The whole thing flys apart, eventually it will slow down and then start pulling back with all matter smashing back into a ball and them BOOM, the whole process repeats.
I think that is how the whole show started and then went on to say, much to their surprise all matter was actually accelerating away. Show ultimatley concluded that the universe would either tear itself apart or matter would become so far apart , everything would eventually cool off to the point where all stars are dead and space is just filled with cold icy rocks.
The problem is that you are stuck up on the Matter being in a ball and flying out.
The whole universe was a ball, matter AND space, and that's where people get hung up.
When the universe was all crunched up it wasn't because the matter was all in one place in the universe, it was because that was the size of the universe.
That's the tough part, visualizing that it isn't matter flying out into space, it is space expanding and taking the matter with it, that is what the balloon example was about. The surface of the baloon is expanding and taking what's on it with it.
Whoops, didn't see Photon expalined this again as well. Oh well, I guess I'm just reiterating what he said.
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Location: In my office, at the Ministry of Awesome!
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay
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Ah, see, that helped. Matter doesn't operate independently of the universe.
Exactly.
Another one I heard as a good example is baking a loaf of rasin bread.
When you start out with the raisin bread all the raisins are close together.
Then as the bread rises and bakes, the raisins move appart as the dough expands.
So if you think of the raisins as matter (say galaxies) and the dough as space itself, you can sort of imagine how it works.
Space expands (the dough rises and bakes) and it takes the raisins (matter/galaxies) with it.
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Exactly.
Another one I heard as a good example is baking a loaf of rasin bread.
When you start out with the raisin bread all the raisins are close together.
Then as the bread rises and bakes, the raisins move appart as the dough expands.
So if you think of the raisins as matter (say galaxies) and the dough as space itself, you can sort of imagine how it works.
Space expands (the dough rises and bakes) and it takes the raisins (matter/galaxies) with it.
That is the metaphor my old astronomy prof used. Wait, are you her?
Thus, Photon you are saying that at the time when all space, matter and energy were concentrated there was no catalytic explosion yet the start of a rapid expansion caused by the cooling of the once uniform energy fields? So, is it safe to say that the bang wasn't a bang so much as it was hiss that usually sees the balloon is inflating? So, what would cause the inflation of the ballon? Is the catalyst suspected to be known?
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Yes, dark matter I believe is pushing everything apart. Now if I understood the show correctly, dark energy is also comes into play. They are just trying to figure out which one has the bigger affect as it will help predict how the universe will die.
When you start out with the raisin bread all the raisins are close together.
Then as the bread rises and bakes, the raisins move appart as the dough expands.
Except there's an "outside" that the bread expands into
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom
Thus, Photon you are saying that at the time when all space, matter and energy were concentrated there was no catalytic explosion yet the start of a rapid expansion caused by the cooling of the once uniform energy fields?
The other way around, I think the cooling happened because of the expansion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom
So, is it safe to say that the bang wasn't a bang so much as it was hiss that usually sees the balloon is inflating? So, what would cause the inflation of the ballon? Is the catalyst suspected to be known?
Everything was dense and so hot only energy existed, no matter.
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It proposes a period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual Big Bang expansion, during which time the energy density of the universe was dominated by a cosmological constant-type of vacuum energy that later decayed to produce the matter and radiation that fill the universe today.
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Yes, dark matter I believe is pushing everything apart. Now if I understood the show correctly, dark energy is also comes into play. They are just trying to figure out which one has the bigger affect as it will help predict how the universe will die.
Actually dark matter is like normal matter with respect to gravity, it attracts just like normal matter does. It just doesn't interact with normal matter (i.e. it's hard to detect).
Dark energy is bigger, 74% of the mass/energy in the universe is dark energy, 22% is dark matter, the rest is the stuff we see and interact with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom
Isn't dark matter extremely dense, thus the speculation that it (the universe pre BB) reached a density 'tipping-point'?
Not sure what you mean by that, but really anything "pre big bang" is pretty much pure speculation.
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Thanks for the link. It was quite accessible. So, my statement which you didn't grasp makes more sense if I substitute dark matter for dark energy at the primary expansion phase.
The other way around, I think the cooling happened because of the expansion.
I was thinking about this and went and checked and I think I was wrong, the cooling caused the rapid inflation, they talk about the universe being supercooled and then going through a rapid phase transition (kind of like how you supercool water, it's still water, but then you move the glass and it all freezes at once).
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Dark energy is bigger, 74% of the mass/energy in the universe is dark energy, 22% is dark matter, the rest is the stuff we see and interact with.
I read that Dark energy is also warping our look into far reaches of the universe making it difficult to measure the expansion, To Astronomers it looks like smaller bubbles in space.
I was thinking about this and went and checked and I think I was wrong, the cooling caused the rapid inflation, they talk about the universe being supercooled and then going through a rapid phase transition (kind of like how you supercool water, it's still water, but then you move the glass and it all freezes at once).
On another forum I asked someone who knows about this stuff about this, this was the answer:
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In Guth's original model inflation was a meta-stable phase, and ended by a first order transition. Such transitions proceed through bubble nucleation. The problem in a nutshell is that if the nucleation rate is large, inflation ends very rapidly (and doesn't serve its purpose). It it's small, it lasts a long time, but each bubble is nearly empty - so no reheating.
In most models that work, there's no such sharp transition. The inflaton gradually rolls down a potential. When it gets down far enough, the potential energy ceases dominating, inflation ends, and much of the potential energy gets rapidly turned into kinetic energy and particles of various sorts.
So uh, yeah. I obviously still have a long way to go
Neat T@T, do you have a link?
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
After watching "Death of the Universe" it made me realise how miraculous it is to be alive and how people are worrying about things they cannot control. I know that when I pass away I will be forgotten and no trace of my existence will remain and I'm okay with that. Its the way of things.
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