Pope: Condoms not the answer to AIDS in Africa

[Ronald Pagan]

Pope Benedict XVI said on his way to Africa today that condoms were not the answer in the continent's fight against HIV, his first explicit statement on an issue that has divided even clergy working with AIDS patients. He had never directly addressed condom use. He has said the Roman Catholic Church is in the forefront of the battle against AIDS. The Vatican encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease.

Yup abstinence...


It's been working pretty well up to now.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home

[Daradon]

And in other news, we'll have a blue sky this afternoon.

[Cheese]

....and every 3 seconds another poor soul in Africa, who believes what the Pope is talking about, dies of Aids.

Is this murder?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Cheese

....and every 3 seconds another poor soul in Africa, who believes what the Pope is talking about, dies of Aids.

Is this murder?

No.

As much as it sucks, it's not murder. Not even close.

EDIT: Perhaps I should clarify that statement. Murder is the willful and purposeful taking of someones life, in which they have no choice.

Although the Pope's suggestions may carry some influence, they aren't the willful taking of someones life. As well, these people do have choices. Maybe not the best ones, and yeah, it's a terrible situation, but they still have many choices in which they could not contract AIDS.

So no, it's not murder, not even close.

[REDVAN]

Sorry, but I have little faith (pun intended, I have little faith in general) that anyone in Arica would use a condom, even if it were provided free.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Sorry, but I have little faith (pun intended, I have little faith in general) that anyone in Arica would use a condom, even if it were provided free.

I'm not quite sure what this post intones.

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by Cheese

....and every 3 seconds another poor soul in Africa, who believes what the Pope is talking about, dies of Aids.

Is this murder?

Just what I needed, another over-dramatic anti-religion post!

Gimme a break!

I read your silly post...are you assaulting me? (insulting my intelligence perhaps!). No. You are taking the Pope, trying to uphold a Catholic ideal and wishing people in Africa the best and possibly accusing him of murder? Apples to oranges.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not quite sure what this post intones.

Nothing that's politically correct I'm sure.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not quite sure what this post intones.

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Nothing that's politically correct I'm sure.

It means that if we gave away free condoms in Africa (moreso than today) then no one would use them. Would you use a condom if you din't have to?

So whatever the Pope says doesn't really matter, because it's not going to change anything. All it is going to do is cause discussion on CalgaryPuck about religious nuts and non-religious nuts.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Sorry, but I have little faith (pun intended, I have little faith in general) that anyone in Arica would use a condom, even if it were provided free.

Expand.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

It means that if we gave away free condoms in Africa (moreso than today) then no one would use them. Would you use a condom if you din't have to?

Well if I had a 40-50% risk of getting AIDS and dying a horrible, horrible death, I likely would.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Expand.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well if I had a 40-50% risk of getting AIDS and dying a horrible, horrible death, I likely would.

I still don't think you can force people to use condoms, and I don't think the Pope saying that they are evil is going to make people use or not use them. People who want to use them, will. Those who don't want to, won't.

I don't think that the use of condoms will be affected one iota by what the Pope says.

[Russic]

I think condoms are mildly secondary to education of the situation. Redvan is actually partially correct, many times condoms are offered they are not used because the intended user already has aids. Apparetly the idea that you need to protect your partners can be a hard one to get across. My uncle has spent years in Africa and he says it's an incredible challenge.

The pope is still living in a very dangerous mindset IMO. He's not directly killing people, but he's certainly doing nothing to save lives.

[CGYTransplant]

Originally Posted by Daradon

No.


Although the Pope's suggestions may carry some influence, they aren't the willful taking of someones life. As well, these people do have choices. Maybe not the best ones, and yeah, it's a terrible situation, but they still have many choices in which they could not contract AIDS.

Tell that to the women who are raped by HIV+ men, because the the "Cure" for AIDS is to have sex with a virgin.

The message of abstinence really doesn't take hold in the general population, anywhere in the world. Even if a couple DOES abstain until marriage, what if one of them was born HIV+? Monogamy/abstinence won't help there either, and the cycle of infection continues. As well, it is fairly common in some African cultures for a widowed woman to be taken in as a wife by her husband's brother...again, just continuing the chain of transmission if she is HIV+

I understand that as the Pope, he really can't condone birth control, because it's against the teachings of the church. But to publicly say that the cure will only come from love and acceptance is just irresponsible and ridiculous. Hugs don't cure AIDS.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by CGYTransplant

Tell that to the women who are raped by HIV+ men, because the the "Cure" for AIDS is to have sex with a virgin.

The message of abstinence really doesn't take hold in the general population, anywhere in the world. Even if a couple DOES abstain until marriage, what if one of them was born HIV+? Monogamy/abstinence won't help there either, and the cycle of infection continues. As well, it is fairly common in some African cultures for a widowed woman to be taken in as a wife by her husband's brother...again, just continuing the chain of transmission if she is HIV+

I understand that as the Pope, he really can't condone birth control, because it's against the teachings of the church. But to publicly say that the cure will only come from love and acceptance is just irresponsible and ridiculous. Hugs don't cure AIDS.

Fine, irresponsible and idiotic. It still doesn't equate to murder.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, and I completely understand the situation, but like this situation progress only comes from truthful dialogue and an apt analysis of what's going on. One side piling on the other side and accusing each other of things that are completely over the top does not help the situation.

As far as the raping a virgin and curing AIDS thing goes, that's obviously something that proper education might help. On the other hand, it's probably purportrated by people who would do that sort of thing anyway. For example, I wouldn't rape anyone even if it WOULD save my life. It's just wrong. So then those people themselves are the murderers. Not the church.

I have no love for organized religion, and I don't like the position the pope has taken, but come on. Pointing figures and making wild claims doesn't help.

[mykalberta]

In a related note, a homeless guy in Calgary complained about the new transit parking fees, wondering if his safeway cart was eligible to be placed in the handicapped parking area.

Take both statements with the same grain of salt IMO.

[Burninator]

The issue with AIDS in Africa is education. AIDS is not understood by the majority of people there. I've talked to people who lived in Africa and it's eye opening and mind numbing. Information is being spread that is doing harm. Like witch doctor nonsense like eating lots of potatoes and garlic will cure AIDS, having a good shower after having unprotected sex with someone with AIDS with stop the transmission, using condoms will cause AIDS, and having sex with a virgin with cure your AIDS. There have been people raping infants and transmitting the virus to them. This information is coming from government officials and other prominent members of society and is continually being spread through the culture because of a lack of education about the issue.

And now the Vatican continues to spread information that will cause harm is making the problem worse. The pope has a large influence in parts of Africa and telling people to be abstinent will not work. It will only cause more people to transmit the virus. Could the pope be tried in a court of law for murder? Probably not. His what he is saying killing people? Yes. Is there blood on his hands? Yes.

[Locke]

Isnt that absolutely correct? The best way not to contract AIDS from a sexual partner would be abstinence?

Ie. If shes got AIDS look elsewhere rather than wrap it up and hope for the best?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Locke

Isnt that absolutely correct? The best way not to contract AIDS from a sexual partner would be abstinence?

Ie. If shes got AIDS look elsewhere rather than wrap it up and hope for the best?

Technically, yes. Practically, no. The majority of people are always going to bump uglies, it's only a matter of time. Might as well promote safe sex, so when they get to the no pants dance they do it safe. Plus with all the nonsense and pseudoscience being spread around with AIDS this is only compounding the problem.

Abstinence only education has been shown to be completely ineffective. Peoples biological urges are usually stronger than their religious convictions.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Cheese

....and every 3 seconds another poor soul in Africa, who believes what the Pope is talking about, dies of Aids.

Is this murder?

If they believed what the Pope was talking about, they would be abstaining from sex with anyone besides their spouse.