Traffic Ticket Question

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Dion

Guilty as charged for mis reading the post.

I hand my head in shame

It's okay

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by valo403

Some stupid point like the cop actually doing their job correctly? If the police don't do what is required to prove guilt there is absolutely nothing wrong with arguing deficiencies in the case.

Why are you quoting me on this? Did you read what I wrote? You may be actually guilty of an offence, you will just be treated as if you were not guilty until proven in a court. Technically, one can be found not guilty in a court of law yet still be guilty of committing an offence.

If an officer didn't do his/her job properly, then by all means bring that up in court. Never once did I say otherwise.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Why are you quoting me on this? Did you read what I wrote? You may be actually guilty of an offence, you will just be treated as if you were not guilty until proven in a court. Technically, one can be found not guilty in a court of law yet still be guilty of committing an offence.

If an officer didn't do his/her job properly, then by all means bring that up in court. Never once did I say otherwise.

I quoted you because you seemed to be saying that it's stupid for people to argue tickets if they did in fact do what they are accused of. I don't see how that's stupid at all, even if you are 100% guilty of the stated offense it's not at all uncommon to have the degree of the offense reduced or to have the whole thing thrown out based on a technicality. Nothing stupid about trying, as the OP has proven.

And moral guilt and legal guilt are obviously different, mostly because there's no such thing as objective morality.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by valo403

I quoted you because you seemed to be saying that it's stupid for people to argue tickets if they did in fact do what they are accused of. I don't see how that's stupid at all, even if you are 100% guilty of the stated offense it's not at all uncommon to have the degree of the offense reduced or to have the whole thing thrown out based on a technicality. Nothing stupid about trying, as the OP has proven.

And moral guilt and legal guilt are obviously different, mostly because there's no such thing as objective morality.

Our system allows for one to argue based on technical errors in law, having said that, a real man/women owns up to his/her mistakes and is accoutnable for his/her actions.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Our system allows for one to argue based on technical errors in law, having said that, a real man owns up to his mistakes and is accoutnable for his/her actions.

Oh jesus.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Our system allows for one to argue based on technical errors in law, having said that, a real man owns up to his mistakes and is accoutnable for his/her actions.

You must know some interesting men

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Rathji

You must know some interesting men

Happy now?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Oh jesus.

He's not going to be able to help you.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

So I went by myself this morning and requested to speak to the JP. The lady at the wicket told me to step aside while she made a phone call. I figure there was a miscommunication that she might've thought I was trying to pretend to be her. When she was done her phonecall, she took the next person in line.

Now, I have no idea what the phonecall was about or why I am standing on my own line. She calls me back after talking to him and advises me that she is quashing the ticket because there was an error. I had no idea what the error was so I asked her. Even though the cop but the month and the year correctly, he failed to provide the day. So we got the demerits decreased from three to zero and the fine from $156 to $0. Not a bad morning!

The cop does have 60 days to reissue a new ticket though so we're hoping he doesn't choose to do that

Good job! I got off my ticket recently as well, due to similar circumstances. Although the officer didnt show up anyways.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Good job! I got off my ticket recently as well, due to similar circumstances. Although the officer didnt show up anyways.

That's good that you got out of a ticket, but unfortunitly, you're no longer a "real man" anymore. Hope it was worth it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

He's not going to be able to help you.

Don't worry, I wasn't looking for help, I was just taken aback by how ridiculous that comment was.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Don't worry, I wasn't looking for help, I was just taken aback by how ridiculous that comment was.

WTF are you talking about? You want to know what one of societies biggest problems is today? IT IS LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY. If you F up, then deal with the consequences.

Not once have I suggested that our system should be changed to remove the ability to have your say in court, I like how it is, but I am sick and tired of people wasting time and resources for crap that they did wrong and then decided to try and get out of it.

It is no different than that freak show that cut off buddies head on the bus. He used the system to get off. Hopefully he never gets let out of the mental institution but he may be let out next year, you never know. But, he used the system for his own good along with thousands of other people, along with thousands of criminals.

Your comment was the ridiculous one.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

WTF are you talking about? You want to know what one of societies biggest problems is today? IT IS LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY. If you F up, then deal with the consequences.

Not once have I suggested that our system should be changed to remove the ability to have your say in court, I like how it is, but I am sick and tired of people wasting time and resources for crap that they did wrong and then decided to try and get out of it.

It is no different than that freak show that cut off buddies head on the bus. He used the system to get off. Hopefully he never gets let out of the mental institution but he may be let out next year, you never know. But, he used the system for his own good along with thousands of other people, along with thousands of criminals.

Your comment was the ridiculous one.

So do you think all cars should have an automatic ticket dispenser so that whenever your vehicle goes over the speed limit, you automatically get the appropriate ticket? And then no one should fight these tickets, but instead "be a man" and just pay for it?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

So do you think all cars should have an automatic ticket dispenser so that whenever your vehicle goes over the speed limit, you automatically get the appropriate ticket? And then no one should fight these tickets, but instead "be a man" and just pay for it?

Excuse me? What are you talking about. Where in the world did you get that from? If you get caught, and you did it, especially when we are talking about something so simple as a speeding ticket/fine, quit wasting peoples time and pay the bloody thing. I don't see how your above comment is at all appropriate to my arguement.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Excuse me? What are you talking about. Where in the world did you get that from? If you get caught, and you did it, especially when we are talking about something so simple as a speeding ticket/fine, quit wasting peoples time and pay the bloody thing. I don't see how your above comment is at all appropriate to my arguement.

Why do you need to be caught to pay your fine for speeding? You should be a man and pay the fine everytime you speed. And the best way to ensure this is to installl automatic ticket dispernsers. That way people dont have to go to city hall and voluntarilly pay their speeding tickets and waste government resources.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Why do you need to be caught to pay your fine for speeding? You should be a man and pay the fine everytime you speed. And the best way to ensure this is to installl automatic ticket dispernsers. That way people dont have to go to city hall and voluntarilly pay their speeding tickets and waste government resources.

Wow, nice try at legitimizing your arguement but your attempt to compare your scenario with my arguement is so far removed you sound absolutly ######ed.

The to discussions are apples and oranges. If you want to talk in criminal terms, people do show up after they have committed an offence, before they are caught, and actually "man up". But again, that is not what I was discussing.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

WTF are you talking about? You want to know what one of societies biggest problems is today? IT IS LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY. If you F up, then deal with the consequences.

Not once have I suggested that our system should be changed to remove the ability to have your say in court, I like how it is, but I am sick and tired of people wasting time and resources for crap that they did wrong and then decided to try and get out of it.

It is no different than that freak show that cut off buddies head on the bus. He used the system to get off. Hopefully he never gets let out of the mental institution but he may be let out next year, you never know. But, he used the system for his own good along with thousands of other people, along with thousands of criminals.

Your comment was the ridiculous one.

You just compared a speeding ticket to decapitation.

How you can then claim that another person said something ridiculous is beyond me.

If the legal system doesn't have the ability to convict me of the accused crime why should I bail it out? I don't really give damn if you think that makes me morally guilty or less of a man, I think less of you for not putting up a fight.

I;m sure you broke the law a number of times this week, although likely in very small ways, seeing as you're such amn I expect you'll be delivering that signed confession to the police in the morning.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by valo403

You just compared a speeding ticket to decapitation.

How you can then claim that another person said something ridiculous is beyond me.

Ah, no I didn't compare speeding to decapitation....not sure where you got that, you may want to check your reading glasses.

If the legal system doesn't have the ability to convict me of the accused crime why should I bail it out? I don't really give damn if you think that makes me morally guilty or less of a man, I think less of you for not putting up a fight.

Oh, good for you if you think that someone is less of a man because they admit to there mistakes and take responsibility for their actions. I sure hope you never have children because they sure won't be brought up correctly and will just add to societies problems.

I;m sure you broke the law a number of times this week, although likely in very small ways, seeing as you're such amn I expect you'll be delivering that signed confession to the police in the morning.

Good lord man, you just don't get it do you. Please show me where I said every person must be perfect and if they fail to obey any and all laws they must present themselves forthwith to a court of law to repent, confess and face punishment? Thats right, I didn't. This discussion has been about when someone gets caught, own up to it.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Ah, no I didn't compare speeding to decapitation....not sure where you got that, you may want to check your reading glasses.

Oh, good for you if you think that someone is less of a man because they admit to there mistakes and take responsibility for their actions. I sure hope you never have children because they sure won't be brought up correctly and will just add to societies problems.

Good lord man, you just don't get it do you. Please show me where I said every person must be perfect and if they fail to obey any and all laws they must present themselves forthwith to a court of law to repent, confess and face punishment? Thats right, I didn't. This discussion has been about when someone gets caught, own up to it.

"It is no different than that freak show that cut off buddies head on the bus"

That's you right?

I actually never said I think you're less of a man, that's the kind of talk thrown around by overly masculine fools. I'll let you stick to that.

I do however think less of someone who judges others for choosing to exercise a fundamental right and requires that the government actually be put to their proofs.

Apparently when you do something wrong you have to admit it, correct? But wait, only if you get caught? Where's the morality and 'manliness' in that?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by valo403

"It is no different than that freak show that cut off buddies head on the bus"

That's you right?

Clearly you can't comprehend the fact that I wasn't comparing the acts of committing the offences but the act of using the system to ones advantage even though one is clearly guilty.

I actually never said I think you're less of a man, that's the kind of talk thrown around by overly masculine fools. I'll let you stick to that.

My mistake, I guess when you say you are going to think less of me, you actually mean something else? Since I am a man, and you would think less of me, than I only assumed that your comment would translate into thinking someone is less of a man for their opinion on this matter.

I do however think less of someone who judges others for choosing to exercise a fundamental right and requires that the government actually be put to their proofs.

Again, you seem unable to actually get the point that I am making. Just because our society gives someone the right to do something, doesn't mean it is the most prudent thing to exercise that right all the time for any reason.

Apparently when you do something wrong you have to admit it, correct? But wait, only if you get caught? Where's the morality and 'manliness' in that?

Again, I guess you can't comprehend the different situations involved here and you try as hard as you can't to muddy the arguement by trying to make wild arguements.

First of all, if someone drives over the speed limit and then decides to go down to the police station and admit their guilt, I can guarantee, nothing would happen except the officer telling you to get lost. Speeding is not a criminal offence. Therefor it is only logical to conclude that breaking a law such as speeding does not carry the same consequences as breaking a criminal law, thus, there is no point in running to the police to admit your guilt if you happen to break one of those laws. If however, you do get caught by the police for breaking that law and you clearly know you did break it and there are no mitigating circumstances, then own up to it and don't waste tax payer resources by trying to get off. Like I have said before, I am not against going to the procecutor before trial to see what he can do, but even then, you are tieing up the system by doing so.

In a criminal matter, the consequences are much more severe as the act is much more severe. Thus, if you do commit an offence, you SHOULD admit to what you have done and turn yourself in.