Harper's comments about the Bloc

[Reaper]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Jun 29 2005, 02:52 PM
I'm pretty sure that article refers to beatings she suffered at the hands of her first husband, not Ralph.

Well, then that is my mistake. Sorry for the misinformation.

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Reaper+Jun 29 2005, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Reaper @ Jun 29 2005, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare@Jun 29 2005, 02:52 PM
I'm pretty sure that article refers to beatings she suffered at the hands of her first husband, not Ralph.

Well, then that is my mistake. Sorry for the misinformation. [/b][/quote]
You should be.

I have known Ralph for well over 30 years and Colleen since before he married her.

Before you go around making such statements as calling people wife beaters, you really should know what the hell you are talking about.

Ralph is a very kind and gentle man for the most part (though he will get testy in the political arena), and she is as sweet a lady as i have ever encountered.

[octothorp]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...esex050629.html

And on the subjects of Klein and same sex marriage, he says that his government may stop solemnizing marriages altogether, leaving marriages to the work of the churches. Apparently, JPs would be allowed only to grant civil unions, not marriages. And here I thought his beef was with same sex marriage, not atheist marriage. My fiance and I were planning to get married using a JP, because we're not at all religious. Under this legislation, the most we could do is get a civil union unless we went to a church? WTF is that supposed to prove, Ralph?

[Thunderball]

possibly a sign of things to come... perhaps it is time that government abandons marriage, assigns civil unions to anyone or any number of people, and allows the religious people to have their tradition.

[moon]

Originally posted by octothorp@Jun 29 2005, 03:08 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...esex050629.html

And on the subjects of Klein and same sex marriage, he says that his government may stop solemnizing marriages altogether, leaving marriages to the work of the churches. Apparently, JPs would be allowed only to grant civil unions, not marriages. And here I thought his beef was with same sex marriage, not atheist marriage. My fiance and I were planning to get married using a JP, because we're not at all religious. Under this legislation, the most we could do is get a civil union unless we went to a church? WTF is that supposed to prove, Ralph?

Probably that Ottawa is wrong in forcing all provinces to adopt same-sex marriages laws.

[moon]

Originally posted by Reaper@Jun 29 2005, 01:54 PM

shinguard, you make it sound like poor old Ralphie was working in a coal mine to make extra money to pay off the provincial debt. Care to discuss his beatification? sheesh.

Klein was the Premier at the time the final schedule was set for paying off Alberta's provincial debt but it's not like he is the only reason that it happened. His governments cut funding to social programs and then reaped the benefits of escalating oil prices.

Yes, Alberta is debt free but at what social cost?

So everything that goes wrong is his fault and nothing that goes right is because of things he has done. I never said he was the sole reason but he continued the plan and was the leader who saw it finally paid off. I will give him credit for that. And all this whinning about at what social cost?? I see no cost at all. In fact I would like to see some of the social spending cut back. He has taken steps to try and improve health care by allowing private health and has been held back by Ottawa.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by moon+Jun 29 2005, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moon @ Jun 29 2005, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Reaper@Jun 29 2005, 01:54 PM

shinguard, you make it sound like poor old Ralphie was working in a coal mine to make extra money to pay off the provincial debt. Care to discuss his beatification? sheesh.

Klein was the Premier at the time the final schedule was set for paying off Alberta's provincial debt but it's not like he is the only reason that it happened. His governments cut funding to social programs and then reaped the benefits of escalating oil prices.

Yes, Alberta is debt free but at what social cost?

So everything that goes wrong is his fault and nothing that goes right is because of things he has done. I never said he was the sole reason but he continued the plan and was the leader who saw it finally paid off. I will give him credit for that. And all this whinning about at what social cost?? I see no cost at all. In fact I would like to see some of the social spending cut back. He has taken steps to try and improve health care by allowing private health and has been held back by Ottawa. [/b][/quote]
I agree. They should quit wasting money on schools and teachers. In fact, close down a school or two, herd all those AISH people into them and cut the benefits right off. This province just can't continue to throw money away on it's citizens.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Reaper@Jun 29 2005, 01:54 PM
shinguard, you make it sound like poor old Ralphie was working in a coal mine to make extra money to pay off the provincial debt. Care to discuss his beatification? sheesh.

Klein was the Premier at the time the final schedule was set for paying off Alberta's provincial debt but it's not like he is the only reason that it happened. His governments cut funding to social programs and then reaped the benefits of escalating oil prices.

Yes, Alberta is debt free but at what social cost?

And how much damage was done to health care and education when Chretien/Martin gutted transfer payments to balance the federal budget?

[moon]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Jun 29 2005, 03:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Jun 29 2005, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

So everything that goes wrong is his fault and nothing that goes right is because of things he has done. I never said he was the sole reason but he continued the plan and was the leader who saw it finally paid off. I will give him credit for that. And all this whinning about at what social cost?? I see no cost at all. In fact I would like to see some of the social spending cut back. He has taken steps to try and improve health care by allowing private health and has been held back by Ottawa.

I agree. They should quit wasting money on schools and teachers. In fact, close down a school or two, herd all those AISH people into them and cut the benefits right off. This province just can't continue to throw money away on it's citizens. [/b][/quote]
Sounds good to me. As long as my wife doesn't lose her job when we close down the schools.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by octothorp@Jun 29 2005, 03:08 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...esex050629.html

And on the subjects of Klein and same sex marriage, he says that his government may stop solemnizing marriages altogether, leaving marriages to the work of the churches. Apparently, JPs would be allowed only to grant civil unions, not marriages. And here I thought his beef was with same sex marriage, not atheist marriage. My fiance and I were planning to get married using a JP, because we're not at all religious. Under this legislation, the most we could do is get a civil union unless we went to a church? WTF is that supposed to prove, Ralph?

Personally, that is the solution I have always favored.

Let people decide what they consider a "marriage", so far as the government is concerned, everything is simply a "union". A nice, clean, politically correct term that cant offend anybody. It's the 21st century way.

Really, what does it matter to you if the government calls your relationship a "union" or a "marriage"?

[octothorp]

Originally posted by moon+Jun 29 2005, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moon @ Jun 29 2005, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-octothorp@Jun 29 2005, 03:08 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...esex050629.html

And on the subjects of Klein and same sex marriage, he says that his government may stop solemnizing marriages altogether, leaving marriages to the work of the churches. Apparently, JPs would be allowed only to grant civil unions, not marriages. And here I thought his beef was with same sex marriage, not atheist marriage. My fiance and I were planning to get married using a JP, because we're not at all religious. Under this legislation, the most we could do is get a civil union unless we went to a church? WTF is that supposed to prove, Ralph?

Probably that Ottawa is wrong in forcing all provinces to adopt same-sex marriages laws. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, which would be fine (well not fine, but at least understandable) if this reaction had anything to do with same sex marriages. But a gay couple will still be able to get married in Alberta simply by going to a church that allows gay marriages, so he hasn't "protected" the traditional view of marriage at all.

[moon]

Originally posted by octothorp+Jun 29 2005, 03:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (octothorp @ Jun 29 2005, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Probably that Ottawa is wrong in forcing all provinces to adopt same-sex marriages laws.

Yeah, which would be fine (well not fine, but at least understandable) if this reaction had anything to do with same sex marriages. But a gay couple will still be able to get married in Alberta simply by going to a church that allows gay marriages, so he hasn't "protected" the traditional view of marriage at all. [/b][/quote]
No but it will ensure that the Alberta Government will not preside over any same-sex marriages.

[Resolute 14]

Which is all he can do legally.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by moon+Jun 29 2005, 04:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moon @ Jun 29 2005, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I agree. They should quit wasting money on schools and teachers. In fact, close down a school or two, herd all those AISH people into them and cut the benefits right off. This province just can't continue to throw money away on it's citizens.

Sounds good to me. As long as my wife doesn't lose her job when we close down the schools. [/b][/quote]
Barb Higgins just informed me that the province has a 5 billion dollar surplus this year. Do you really think they should cut spending on social services?

[moon]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Jun 29 2005, 05:23 PM
Barb Higgins just informed me that the province has a 5 billion dollar surplus this year. Do you really think they should cut spending on social services?

I think they should not spend it all on social services. I could use some of that money back in my pocket.

I guess they don't have to cut spending but I think that we certainly spend much more money in stupid social programs than we need to.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by moon+Jun 29 2005, 06:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moon @ Jun 29 2005, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Jun 29 2005, 05:23 PM
Barb Higgins just informed me that the province has a 5 billion dollar surplus this year. Do you really think they should cut spending on social services?

I think they should not spend it all on social services. I could use some of that money back in my pocket.

I guess they don't have to cut spending but I think that we certainly spend much more money in stupid social programs than we need to. [/b][/quote]
Hey I have no problem with lowering taxes either.

But the Black Gold isn't going to last forever so they should be just pouring cash into education and whatever else helps set us up for the future.

What stupid social programs are you referring to? I might agree with you.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by fotze@Jun 29 2005, 06:50 PM
My only hope is that my own MP Jim Prentice is actually listening to his constituents and his heart and not towing the party line.

As soon as the PC's can eliminate this type of shinguard they will be a power, but they won't and they will continual to rightfully get the shinguardscraps that they so goddamn deserve. fataing IDIOTS.

Ask and ye shall receive. Jim voted in favor of the legislation. His riding is significantly "Red Tory"... could it be that a politician actually listened to his constituents? O_o

Link

I scoff at all this crap being spewed by the Religious Right that claim that the sanctity of marriage is at risk. Sorry, but that's been over for a long time now - how many of us DON'T know someone that divorced someone because of various less than puritanical reasons (cheating, beating, abandonment, boredom). Timmy already has two dads: His biological Dad and his step Dad.

Heteros have done a good enough job of screwing up marriage - I don't think we can claim the high road on this one.

I agree that churches shouldn't be forced to perform marriages if it's not a part of their beliefs. Although it might give the chuches some perspective on having unwanted beliefs forced on them.

[Thunderball]

I think with budget surpluses, the key is moderation... yes you are rolling in money, but will you be in 5 years? 25 years? 50 years?

Primarily, spending to diversify industry and spending to become more environmentally friendly are gifts that keep on giving and must be a priority. Will we have a clean future and a diversified economy in the future. Should the Oilpatch become less prevalent, will there be enough of other industries to sustain us and promote growth? This is so important and not many politicians, left, right or centre seem to recognize it.

Secondly, you must recognize that people work hard in this province and reward them with a lesser tax burden. But do so in a way that promotes investment back into the economy and doesn't handcuff the province in the future.

Thirdly, you must look at your budget... are health care, infrastructure, education getting enough money? Could they use a quick infusion? These three departments are crucial and must have the most investment possible, that being said, they have to be run effectively and efficiently, and simply giving these groups money without careful consideration can result in that money disappearing with little gain for the citizens.

After all that, then you look at some of the other social programs, and doing stuff like refunds... you have to look after the big three sections first.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by I-Hate-Hulse+Jun 29 2005, 07:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (I-Hate-Hulse @ Jun 29 2005, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-fotze@Jun 29 2005, 06:50 PM
My only hope is that my own MP Jim Prentice is actually listening to his constituents and his heart and not towing the party line.

As soon as the PC's can eliminate this type of shinguard they will be a power, but they won't and they will continual to rightfully get the shinguardscraps that they so goddamn deserve. fataing IDIOTS.

Ask and ye shall receive. Jim voted in favor of the legislation. His riding is significantly "Red Tory"... could it be that a politician actually listened to his constituents? O_o

Link

I scoff at all this crap being spewed by the Religious Right that claim that the sanctity of marriage is at risk. Sorry, but that's been over for a long time now - how many of us DON'T know someone that divorced someone because of various less than puritanical reasons (cheating, beating, abandonment, boredom). Timmy already has two dads: His biological Dad and his step Dad.

Heteros have done a good enough job of screwing up marriage - I don't think we can claim the high road on this one.

I agree that churches shouldn't be forced to perform marriages if it's not a part of their beliefs. Although it might give the chuches some perspective on having unwanted beliefs forced on them. [/b][/quote]
Yeah I agree.

Added to that -- this whole "protect traditional marriage" stuff -- there are lots of other things that should be considered "traditional marriage".

Should we bring back the dowry? How about arranged marriages? Or forced? Polygamy (even though it's been used as an argument against same-sex) is quite traditional as well. So is marrying your cousin or your sister. There's a long tradition of women becoming "property" when hitched.

Calling for the defense of "traditional marriage" these days is a nice way of calling for the defense of "marriage as we've known it in our lifetime".

[Reaper]

Originally posted by transplant99+Jun 29 2005, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (transplant99 @ Jun 29 2005, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Well, then that is my mistake. Sorry for the misinformation.

You should be.

I have known Ralph for well over 30 years and Colleen since before he married her.

Before you go around making such statements as calling people wife beaters, you really should know what the hell you are talking about.

Ralph is a very kind and gentle man for the most part (though he will get testy in the political arena), and she is as sweet a lady as i have ever encountered. [/b][/quote]
Wow, great. Thanks for the lecture.