NATO just got a whole lot stronger!

[Aeneas]

This site, whatever it is, talks about the caveats employed by some NATO members:

http://insurgencyresearchgroup.wordp...ensed-to-kill/


Article about Germany using troops in a "war":
http://www.europesworld.org/NewEngli...istanrole.aspx

Looks like I'll be reading for hours...
http://www.aicgs.org/analysis/c/Hanpeter021507.aspx

"... the Germans were not fully sharing the same risks and burdens they (US and UK) themselves were confronting in the more dangerous southern portion of Afghanistan."

Germans in theatre:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/se...afgh-s24.shtml

"Recent assurances by Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung (Christian Democratic Union, CDU)—that the German armed forces continue to enjoy a good reputation among the Afghan population, who even understand the reasons for German attacks on civilians—are not only cynical but are disproved by the daily attacks on German army patrols."

[peter12]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

98% of us have some French blood (exaggeration) and France is one of the reasons we are even here at all. The French "surrender" that everyone speaks of was a surrender only by the cowardly government, it was not a surrender from the French people, the French Freedom Fighters or general De Gaulle. So what are we making fun of? The country that helped found our nation was sold out by a cowardly government in this worlds greatest time of need.......hahaha what a laugher!! I would never make fun of the French; pity them, maybe. Respect them, definitely.

Maybe 8% of us have "some French blood." As an Albertan, if I don't live in Leduc, my connection with France is about 0%.

[llama64]

Hah, love the Canadians piggy backing on American's making fun of the French.

Seriously, we have no leg to stand on as has been demonstrated many times in this thread. France has not been about military power for decades. Their power is about diplomacy and international relations. This is a concept that is largely unknown to North America, although through the 50's and 60's it was one of Canada's largest strengths.

The other thing to keep in mind... who built large parts of British military technology? If you keep your friends well armed, there isn't much incentive to arm yourself. It's Canada's strategy as well.

[QuadCityImages]

Well, for one, they're on this list.

Also, they do have this...


How many carriers does Canada have again? As fun as it is to make fun of the French, they have a real military.

[JohnnyFlame]

How many times have Canadian troops carried the load? We are always there whether we have equipment or not. From Korea to every stinkin UN problem around the globe to Afghanistan. Really what we should do is just cop out like the Chinese, Japanese, Germans, French etc. Sit on the sidelines and not send so much as a team of doctors.

We can cover it up by passing a law that says our army can only be used for defending the country. We can offer diplomats. We can be buddy buddy with every nation and just offer pompous platitudes as our contribution.

When nations such as Afghanistan for example ask for help we can say why don't you ask your neighbors first. China is right next door with an army light years bigger than ours.

Ditto for the Americans. Let the rest of the world sink and swim on their own for a few decades.

[CrusaderPi]

Well, we had the HMCS Bonaventure.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A little while ago, I was listening to CBC radio and they were interviewing someone who was saying that some NATO countries are actually upset with Canada. Apparently, a few NATO countries basically told Canada not to send a lot of troops or go into high combat areas. They told Chretien that Canada did not have the power or means to go in, do the job, and get out. Now they look at us as a country that didn't heed their warnings and that eventually they will have to bail us out.

Wow, for once Canada werent the pussies in this situation.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

What equipment, specifically?

I don't mean to doubt you, but I'd like to know exactly what equipment was ordered by the Harper government and is now in operational use in Afghanistan. The only major equipment change I can recall is the Iltis jeeps, and those were replaced by G-Wagons under Chretien's government.

We have old Leopard II tanks from Germany. Finest tank in the land...

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

We have old Leopard II tanks from Germany. Finest tank in the land...

We're renting the German ones and buying some from the Netherlands.

The Leopard II is not a bad tank at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Byrns

We're renting the German ones and buying some from the Netherlands.

The Leopard II is not a bad tank at all.

We're buying the leopard 2's to replace our leopard 1's. The leopard 2's are very good tanks but they're a bit behind the M1A1 tanks and some of the more advanced MBT's in Israel and even Russia.

Were renting the 2a6m's for Afghanistan because they're better for the desert climate and they have enhanced mine protection under the chasis ( think angled boat hull.

The nice thing about these new tanks is that they are faster, have better stabalized fire control and a bigger cannon.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I'd believe it, and here's why:

What Canada has in manpower is very well-trained, no doubt about it. However, that is relatively few in number.

Our first choice aircraft is over 25 years old (CF-18)

I wouldn't be so quick to pick on the CF-18, its still an enormously capable aircraft, easily as good as anything its going to go up against abroad.

The bulk of the USAF consists of F-16's, which were developed at the same time. Both air forces have continued to modernize the airframes and avionics as well.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

I wouldn't be so quick to pick on the CF-18, its still an enormously capable aircraft, easily as good as anything its going to go up against abroad.

The bulk of the USAF consists of F-16's, which were developed at the same time. Both air forces have continued to modernize the airframes and avionics as well.

The CF-18 is an awesome jet, and they did just upgrade them years behind schedule. However, Canada has a bad habit of ignoring required upgrades, so there is a need to modenize before they get caught with their pants down again, like in Kosovo.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by QuadCityImages

Well, for one, they're on this list.

Also, they do have this...


How many carriers does Canada have again? As fun as it is to make fun of the French, they have a real military.

And they make their own stuff. Imagine Bombardier making our fighter jets...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

I wouldn't be so quick to pick on the CF-18, its still an enormously capable aircraft, easily as good as anything its going to go up against abroad.

The bulk of the USAF consists of F-16's, which were developed at the same time. Both air forces have continued to modernize the airframes and avionics as well.

Problem is that the Airforce still had new f-16's rolling off of the production line and there were new variants coming out all the time.

The CF-18's are the same planes that we bought nearly a generation ago, their airframes are worn out and they're starting to show microfractures. I'd say their almost to or slightly beyond their effective life.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

The bulk of the USAF consists of F-16's,

Aren't they quickly being replaced by the F-22....or is it the F-35? Either way, the US is upgrading a lot faster than we are.

[HOZ]

Does this signal that we have lost in Afghanistan?

BTW: I don't care that the French have the hardware or the numbers. They spent most of last century with superior numbers and hardware (yes even at the beginning of WWII) getting their butts handed to them. German - Vietnamese - Algerians

The French resistance was a joke....held together by French Canadians dropped in to help out. Most of the French populace were happy to help the Nazis. When the writing was on the wall they finally came out and fought. Read the memoirs of Churchill and Eisenhower and you'll know exactly what they thought of Charlie. Very little.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Does this signal that we have lost in Afghanistan?

BTW: I don't care that the French have the hardware or the numbers. They spent most of last century with superior numbers and hardware (yes even at the beginning of WWII) getting their butts handed to them. German - Vietnamese - Algerians

The French resistance was a joke....held together by French Canadians dropped in to help out. Most of the French populace were happy to help the Nazis. When the writing was on the wall they finally came out and fought. Read the memoirs of Churchill and Eisenhower and you'll know exactly what they thought of Charlie. Very little.

Right to the point where Charlie was given a personal plane for transportation with partially busted flap controls.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Right to the point where Charlie was given a personal plane for transportation with partially busted flap controls.

I read or heard something like that. I don't think it is true. They'd miss the pilot's skill if he crashed.

Better idea....
- It wasn't like their artillery was accurate. A bit of own-fire....ooops was that you Charles?

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by HOZ

BTW: I don't care that the French have the hardware or the numbers. They spent most of last century with superior numbers and hardware (yes even at the beginning of WWII) getting their butts handed to them. German - Vietnamese - Algerians

The French resistance was a joke....held together by French Canadians dropped in to help out. Most of the French populace were happy to help the Nazis. When the writing was on the wall they finally came out and fought. Read the memoirs of Churchill and Eisenhower and you'll know exactly what they thought of Charlie. Very little.

I hate to be the one to defend France's military past, but it took a gigantic pair of balls to be in the French resistance. Don't forget the Nazis would torture and/or execute any suspected resistor, and often they would burn entire villages if there was any hint of resistance. And you may think its a joke, but there are a lot of allied pilots who owe their lives to the French resistance. They were sheltered and helped back to Britain at a time when pilots were at a premium (because the allies were trying to turn Germany into a scrap heap.)
Yeah the French lost to the Vietnamese, but so did America. Germany almost conquered all of Europe, and the Algerian war was a bit more complex than "France losing to Algeria". In fact, France actually won the Algerian War, but (similar to America in the second Gulf War) were faced with an insurgency.

[Locke]

No one finds the fact that by all appearances France has a very well trained and equipped fighting force they also have the fewest modern military victories of nearly ever major country in the world even slightly amusing?

I thought that was the joke...