The ongoing financial turmoil and financial discussion thread

[Azure]

Dow fell even further today.

Obama sure is helping the cause with his moronic statements and ridiculous spending ideas.

Billion here, billion there....trillion here, trillion there....and strangely enough, Wallstreet is still crashing. Gee, I wonder whats wrong?

Maybe its because the stimulus bill is nothing more than an excuse by the Obama administration to enact THEIR policies, and spend money THEIR way. Money they couldn't spend if they were limited to ONE budget per ONE fiscal year.

Plus, Obama is also using fear and intimidation to get his polices across, sure doesn't help his cause either.

What ever happened to hope and change? We're barely 2 months into his presidency, and he's failing miserably already.

I don't think its as bad as people make it out to be. This is nothing compared to the great depression. But, Obama is treating it like the Great Depression version 2, and its not helping.

[Azure]

I don't like the conclusion your article comes too.....like I said, it won't be THAT bad, unless things continue the way they have been for the past 6 months.

But, I wanted to point this out.

During fiscal year 2009 the U.S. Treasury is on-track to pay over $500 billion just in interest payments to finance the already-existing debt. New debt this year will likely exceed a trillion dollars. The total debt burden on the economy as a whole could reach $70 trillion by 2010, with annual interest payments for individuals, households, businesses, and all levels of government likely to reach $3 trillion out of a $14 trillion GDP that is now in sharp decline.

Go Obama Go. Spend more money. Surely that is the solution to every problem the US faces right now.

[Jason14h]

You meanObama might not just be a pretty face... NOOOOO WAAAAYYYYYY

[Nancy]

In the category of "is it good news or is it bad news" is a sharp turnaround in the savings rate in the U.S.. From being negative for most of recent years, it has risen to 5%. Bad news in that it means reduced consumer spending, good news in that it means that people are getting their personal finances in order, which is good over the longer term.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

You meanObama might not just be a pretty face... NOOOOO WAAAAYYYYYY

Like I've said many times, I always thought he came into the Whitehouse with the best of intentions.

But, wasting money like he is, and creating an even bigger deficit, and an even bigger debt on top of what exists already, and then telling the people that the deficit is RIGHT ON TARGET.....with what they expected, is ridiculous.

You don't buy paint-shakers, doorbells, or build dog parks, or historical sites, and expect to stimulate the economy.

I've gone over the stimulant bill. A lot of worthwhile projects to fund, especially the alternative energy ones....but A LOT of worthless pork that has absolutely no reason to be on that bill, other than the Obama not being able to control his spending.

We've talked about US health care on here lots of times, and I think many of us would agree that simply throwing more money at the problem isn't going to solve anything. At least not that way Obama wants to 'solve' it. The system needs to be reformed. But instead of doing that, Obama just wants to throw billions upon billions upon billions of dollars that the US doesn't have, and hope it sticks, and something good happens.

What should we look forward too in the future? More doom and gloom from the Obama administration? Some real HOPE and change going on in the Whitehouse and throughout Congress right now.

[metallicat]

What is Obama's approval rating as of right now?

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

what is obama's approval rating as of right now?

110%

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't like the conclusion your article comes too.....like I said, it won't be THAT bad, unless things continue the way they have been for the past 6 months.

But, I wanted to point this out.


Go Obama Go. Spend more money. Surely that is the solution to every problem the US faces right now.

I agree with you, but what else is he to do? He's a politician first and foremost. He's tasked with the job of leading America to the promised land...Except no one has any idea which direction to walk in. The article also mentions that the ONLY hope of America stepping back from the brink of collapse is to create jobs and get real income into people's pockets. Stimulus spending is the only way to do that. Period. It's just a fugly situation that is getting worse and worse. Unfortunately, the US the way world knows it is no longer a reality. Scary thought. Then again, how many Canadians (and other countries for that matter ) spent the last decade+ rooting for the US to fail? We got our wish, we just don't want it anymore.

[Azure]

What he should do? Maybe not make stupid comments like wanting to put a fee on wireless spectrums, thereby nullifying any new investment that the telecom companies were willing to make.

Wireless is an exciting possibility....and Obama just killed any new technology development for a long, long time. Some people even think it may have something to do with the Dow Jones falling even further.

Of course, the only REASON he said it, or wants to do it is because he needs money.

I agree that it is a fugly situation, but I also think there are ways to get out of it. Obama is just taking the wrong direction right now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

What is Obama's approval rating as of right now?

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

110%

That won't last enough.

Hell, in 2 years, the Democrats might just lose a lot of seats if they don't get their act together.

Of course, the Republicans aren't much better, but the American people have this ingrained sense of belief that there are only two parties.

[macker]

Originally Posted by Nancy

In the category of "is it good news or is it bad news" is a sharp turnaround in the savings rate in the U.S.. From being negative for most of recent years, it has risen to 5%. Bad news in that it means reduced consumer spending, good news in that it means that people are getting their personal finances in order, which is good over the longer term.

__________________________________________________ _______________

70% of their economy depends on consumer spending. Right now it is like the consumer is hung over and the government is trying to think of ways to get them to go out and party again. It is fun for awhile but it is not sustainable. http://www.bea.gov/briefrm/saving.htm = The consumer has found AA.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by macker

__________________________________________________ _______________

70% of their economy depends on consumer spending. Right now it is like the consumer is hung over and the government is trying to think of ways to get them to go out and party again. It is fun for awhile but it is not sustainable. http://www.bea.gov/briefrm/saving.htm = The consumer has found AA.

How ironic is it that people finally acting responsibly with their money is causing the US financial system to spiral out of control?

See: Taken for granted.

[macker]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

How ironic is it that people finally acting responsibly with their money is causing the US financial system to spiral out of control?

See: Taken for granted.

__________________________________________________ ________________
The data/charts etc. at this site illustrate that today could have been predicted yesterday, relatively speaking. http://web-xp2a-pws.ntrs.com/content...t/ec032408.pdf

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Azure

What ever happened to hope and change? We're barely 2 months into his presidency, and he's failing miserably already.

Really? Really?!

I'll give you that the stimulus bill had a lot of extras (see pork) on it and maybe didn't tackle the issues of the problem as well as many had hoped.

But really?

You're already judging on two months? A problem many many MANY years in the making, a previous administration that was easily one of the WORST in it's country's history, a whole host of problems right down to the culture and thinking of the country and the people within it. And you were hoping for more (apparently a LOT more) from one guy in two months?

Wow. Just... wow...

As you yourself have said, it's going to take a lot more than the president anyway. There needs to be a whole clean up in Washington, and as I mentioned, the country itself could do with a good scrub too. From Wall Street to Main Street. People are greedy, lazy, and stupid.

If you're disappointed now I'd hide the meds and stay away from the bridges. It's going to get worse, guaranteed. You could put the best leaders in history there, you could put a superhero or God in his place and it's going to get worse.

He's not failing, it's was going to be like this no matter who was there. The old admin got out in the nick of time and whomever replaced them was going to be having serious problems out of the gate.

Let's see what's going to happen with the housing bill, and the other bills coming down the pipe. Let's give the guy a year at least. Holy smokes. Don't let your bias get in the way of giving things a chance.

[macker]

[quote=Daradon;1690899]Really? Really?!

I'll give you that the stimulus bill had a lot of extras (see pork) on it and maybe didn't tackle the issues of the problem as well as many had hoped.

But really?

You're already judging on two months? A problem many many MANY years in the making, a previous administration that was easily one of the WORST in it's country's history, a whole host of problems right down to the culture and thinking of the country and the people within it. And you were hoping for more (apparently a LOT more) from one guy in two months?

Wow. Just... wow...

As you yourself have said, it's going to take a lot more than the president anyway. There needs to be a whole clean up in Washington, and as I mentioned, the country itself could do with a good scrub too. From Wall Street to Main Street. People are greedy, lazy, and stupid.

If you're disappointed now I'd hide the meds and stay away from the bridges. It's going to get worse, guaranteed. You could put the best leaders in history there, you could put a superhero or God in his place and it's going to get worse.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Why is Turbo Tax Tim so quiet these days....Still working off that $34,000 in taxes he failed to pay. You have to admit this is not going well currently and it is not one man but the team behind him isn't helping matters either. Surprisingly Bernanke is the new voice of reason. The others seem suspect currently. It could be a case similar to the Flames where you want them to offer up a solution like trading for Evgeny Malkin and it is just not there. Maybe it is just that bad...At this point they should at least try to calm the market and be more tactful.

[Phanuthier]

Buffet in his annual letter: "We're certain, for example, that the economy will be in shambles throughout 2009 -- and, for that matter, probably well beyond -- but that conclusion does not tell us whether the stock market will rise or fall"

...

"Moreover, major industries have become dependent on federal assistance, and they will be followed by cities and states bearing mind-boggling requests. Weaning these entities from the public teat will be a political challenge. They won't leave willingly."

However, said Buffett, the U.S. government did need to take "strong and immediate action" to avoid a "total breakdown" of the economy.

...

Stupid question: When they say the Dow is 6800 or the NASDAQ is 1320, what does that actually represent? Where does that number actually come from?

[Red]

Good prediction here: http://www.amazon.com/Dow-2008-Diffe...&sr=8-1#reader

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

"Moreover, major industries have become dependent on federal assistance, and they will be followed by cities and states bearing mind-boggling requests. Weaning these entities from the public teat will be a political challenge. They won't leave willingly."

Absolutely correct.

But it doesn't help if Obama is willing to give them what they want, plus more.

However, said Buffett, the U.S. government did need to take "strong and immediate action" to avoid a "total breakdown" of the economy.

I agree.

There are a lot of things the US government could be stimulating. Incompetent businesses aren't one of them.

Start looking at all those smaller, localized banks that are have absolutely no problem making things work. I wonder why THEY aren't falling part, but the bigger banks are.

Maybe, just MAYBE it has something to do with too much government interference. Along with the idea of managing a business properly.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Really? Really?!

I'll give you that the stimulus bill had a lot of extras (see pork) on it and maybe didn't tackle the issues of the problem as well as many had hoped.

But really?

You're already judging on two months?

Yes, really. What is Obama's solution? Waste a bunch of money on a health care system that is broken, and waste even more on a stimulant bill that is supposed to revive the economy?

And in the middle of all that, put the fear of God into all those rich investors who should be biting at the chomps to invest in the US economy while the prices are down, but instead....they're doing, nothing.

I wonder why?

AIG posts worse than expected losses, so the US offers them $30 billion more. Gee, that helps.

Front page of Yahoo News.

NEW YORK – Investors' despair about financial companies and the recession has brought the Dow Jones industrial average to another unwanted milestone:

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Really? Really?!

I'll give you that the stimulus bill had a lot of extras (see pork) on it and maybe didn't tackle the issues of the problem as well as many had hoped.

But really?

....

I read that whole thing in Amy Pohlers voice.