Traffic throttling by Canadian ISPs not required, experts tell CRTC - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Azure · 02-28-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Canada's Internet service providers (ISPs) have no reason to throttle peer-to-peer (p2p) traffic and can use other network management techniques that have minimal end-user repercussions instead, according to top Internet experts.

Net neutrality advocates in Canada have sought out the testimony of experts involved in inventing the Internet and managing Canada's major backbone connection.

http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/e...s.asp?id=52207

Interesting article. There are also a couple paragraphs about Telus, and the fact that they supposedly don't traffic shape or limit p2p connections.

Also mentions Telus wanted to introduce fiber to the curb-side cable boxes in order to increase bandwidth.

NHL009 · 02-28-2009, 02:14 PM

I'm with Shaw and have I-Extreme. I use a Linksys Router. Seems like my torrent download speeds are so slow. Anybody have any links as to why or what I can do to increas them?

UKFlamesfan · 02-28-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHL009

I'm with Shaw and have I-Extreme. I use a Linksys Router. Seems like my torrent download speeds are so slow. Anybody have any links as to why or what I can do to increas them?

Port forwarding.

http://portforward.com/

Hack&Lube · 02-28-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHL009

I'm with Shaw and have I-Extreme. I use a Linksys Router. Seems like my torrent download speeds are so slow. Anybody have any links as to why or what I can do to increas them?

Shaw does not throttle torrents.

Just make sure your bittorrent ports are open on your router

Raekwon · 02-28-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Shaw does not throttle torrents.

If thats true then how come everytime I use bit torrent even once they flag that IP and my ventrillo pings go up to 6k until I reset and spoof the MAC and get a new IP?

cSpooge · 02-28-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raekwon

If thats true then how come everytime I use bit torrent even once they flag that IP and my ventrillo pings go up to 6k until I reset and spoof the MAC and get a new IP?

something on your end then... I haven't had an issues with my speeds going down.

Rathji · 02-28-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raekwon

If thats true then how come everytime I use bit torrent even once they flag that IP and my ventrillo pings go up to 6k until I reset and spoof the MAC and get a new IP?

This is comical. A torrent user sees the effect torrents have on other people in the network, and suddenly thinks Shaw is to blame.

Torrents open numerous TCP connections. Each connection in the link between you and your modem shares that bandwidth that is provided, this is done by TCP automatically. So you have a nice 5 MBit connection to use, but have 5 torrents downloading that have created ~30 connections (5 per torrent, plus 1 extra per torrent that is constantly checking for a better peer)

So you add on your browser connections, MSN, Vent, and you probably have 40 + TCP connections running at once, all equally sharing that 5Mbit connection. Can you see how programs that are only using 1 connection are getting screwed by it?

This doesn't even factor in that Vent is a probably a bandwidth hog, seeing as it is a voice app over what I am guessing is over TCP (might not be but it doesn't really matter, since it needs big bandwidth either way)

Enough with the torrent rants though.

Usenet laughs at you.

cal_guy · 02-28-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Shaw does not throttle torrents.

Just make sure your bittorrent ports are open on your router

In fact Shaw was one of the first to implement throttling. The only major ISP in Canada that doesn't throttle is Telus.

http://arstechnica.com/business/news...e-internet.ars

Rathji · 02-28-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cal_guy

In fact Shaw was one of the first to implement throttling. The only major ISP in Canada that doesn't throttle is Telus.

http://arstechnica.com/business/news...e-internet.ars

They have throttled in smaller markets where the aging infrastructure could not handle the load created by torrents (or p2p in general). They do not currently, nor have they ever to my knowledge throttled torrents in Calgary.

Raekwon · 02-28-2009, 06:34 PM

Rath, I know you are anti torrent and you have valid reasons but this has nothing to do with bandwidth. Check the ventrillo forums this isn't an isolated case. Its only the upload speeds that have problems hence my voice comes across to other users oftens minutes later. After running tests I found that they have que'd my upload traffic on that port casuing the delay after I get a new IP address its fixed however if I switch mac address back it will happen again. Can you explain that?

Is TCP traffic on a well-known BitTorrent port (6881) throttled?

There's no indication that your ISP rate limits all downloads at port 6881. In our test, a TCP download on a BitTorrent port achieved at least 1500 Kbps while a TCP download on a non-BitTorrent port achieved at least 1639 Kbps. You can find details here.

Your ISP possibly rate limits all uploads at port 6881. In our test, a TCP upload on a BitTorrent port achieved at least 74 Kbps while a TCP upload on a non-BitTorrent port achieved at least 839 Kbps. You can find details here.

Rathji · 02-28-2009, 06:58 PM

Not that I am debating the veracity of your claim, but what tests are you running to enable you to determine what Shaw's routers are doing to the packets for a TCP connection for a specific process running on your system?

The fact that it is happening only at upload only just amplifies what I am saying. You have 500kb/s of upload, divided among 40 TCP connections most of which are trying to pump a continuous stream of data. Lets assume there are only 4 active torrents, and your vent connection and nothing else using any bandwidth, this means there is most likely 25 (6X4 +1) TCP connections sharing your 500kb/s upload.

500/25 = 20kb/s per connection since TCP shares all bandwidth between connections equally over a period of time. If your torrents are trying and occasionally successful at using more than their 20kb/s, it will cause buffers to fill and you will lose packets for your Vent. If you have extreme, then you would double that number to 40kb/s.

Since you are losing packets on Vent, it needs to send more packets (to make up for lost ones) which can only make the problem worse. To top this all off when a TCP connection loses ANY packets, it cuts the speed at which it is sending those packets out in half. This could clearly cause the effect you are describing.

I am not saying that this is happening, but I think it is far more likely than Shaw using DPI in Calgary to throttle torrents. I am totally open to the possibility that I am wrong on this, if someone can provide proof.

Dan02 · 02-28-2009, 08:55 PM

Rath, i used to be with you, but in the last while it has IMO become extremely obvious they are queuing the upload on my connection when we turn torrents on, i don't know what tests would be acceptable to prove it to you, but as soon as anyone on our network turns the torrents on everything slows to a crawl on the outbound, which of course in turn affects down as well.

Rathji · 03-02-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan02

Rath, i used to be with you, but in the last while it has IMO become extremely obvious they are queuing the upload on my connection when we turn torrents on, i don't know what tests would be acceptable to prove it to you, but as soon as anyone on our network turns the torrents on everything slows to a crawl on the outbound, which of course in turn affects down as well.

Unless I am mistaken, and I might be as I am not intricately familiar with the specifics of the technology, but Arbor Ellacoya DPI that Shaw employs (in some markets, not Calgary) only restricts the flow of torrent packets. What is your reasoning behind it affecting all traffic?

I am not claiming that my knowledge is infallible here. If there are tests that can suggest that DPI is the culprit instead of the network choking due to bandwidth use, then I honestly would like to know.

I will look into the specifics of Arbor Ellacoya later on though, I am very interested.

Bobblehead · 03-02-2009, 08:54 AM

Check out the Shaw Forums at DSLReports.com.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r212...ringthrottling

Apparently some newer tech was rolled out last Oct.

llama64 · 03-02-2009, 09:12 AM

If Shaw throttles torrents, then it must be a rather high limit.

I managed to cap out on 500kbps on two different torrents. Maybe that's slow to some, but for me that's pretty dang fast.

Rathji · 03-02-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Check out the Shaw Forums at DSLReports.com.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r212...ringthrottling

Apparently some newer tech was rolled out last Oct.

There is alot of the same type of claims there as in this thread. Which doesn't demonstrate anything new. I did notice a couple things there which I find interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

If Shaw throttles torrents, then it must be a rather high limit.

I managed to cap out on 500kbps on two different torrents. Maybe that's slow to some, but for me that's pretty dang fast.

This is the part of the whole argument that indicates that it doesn't happen in Calgary. Unless only half the routers at the hubsites within the city use DPI, it would stand to reason that the effect would be universal.

Raekwon · 03-02-2009, 10:30 AM

Question Rath,

After I download a bunch of files and have completed all of them and shut down the torrent program I notice my modem still going crazy with activity. Is it possible that since i'm still listed on the tracker at that time the that the activity is due to constant requests to my IP looking for the data? Could this be what causes my outbound problems? Maybe this is why getting the new IP fixes everything?

Just some thoughts

llama64 · 03-02-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Question Rath,

After I download a bunch of files and have completed all of them and shut down the torrent program I notice my modem still going crazy with activity. Is it possible that since i'm still listed on the tracker at that time the that the activity is due to constant requests to my IP looking for the data? Could this be what causes my outbound problems? Maybe this is why getting the new IP fixes everything?

Just some thoughts

Without any local traffic on my network, I've noticed the PC Activity light on my Shaw modem is constantly going.

I can only assume it's something between the router and the modem causing that flicker.

GoinAllTheWay · 03-02-2009, 10:41 AM

Im with Shaw, my torrents absolutely ROCKET in these days. I can have a 2 or 3 350Meg files on my computer in under a half hour. I really only have 4 coming in at a time max, not sure if that has anything to do with it but I have no issues with torrents at all.

Raekwon · 03-02-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Im with Shaw, my torrents absolutely ROCKET in these days. I can have a 2 or 3 350Meg files on my computer in under a half hour. I really only have 4 coming in at a time max, not sure if that has anything to do with it but I have no issues with torrents at all.

And that may be where my problems come in. I think the times that I have had the problems I was stupid in that I had 6-12 torrents going at once.