Please don't be so obtuse. Obviously when I write Israel, I mean the policies of the democratically elected Israeli government.
And save the old "basis in prejudice' line that defenders of Israeli policy trot out anytime the actions of the Israeli government or military are criticized.
The situation in Gaza and what has been done to average Palestinians living there speaks volumes. To suggest Israeli policy is wrong is hardly 'prejudice'.
Perhaps. Although we are finding out that the casualty estimates were inflated by Hamas officials, that Israeli war crimes did not occur (ie. use of WP, direct shellings of schools), and that Hamas has taken the medical aid provided by foreign governments for their own use.
How else would you deal with a radical Islamic statelet which seems to assume that it can launch attacks upon another sovereign nation and not expect retaliation? Moreover, an organization which explicitly, in its Charter, quotes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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Does anybody have that image of a freight train going off the rails into a cow pasture?
On topic: I'm not sure if it is possible to overstate the importance of freedom of speech. It is the only way to ensure competing ideas are brought out, challenged, and their merits debated and weighed. It is critical to so many things which are fundamental to our free way of life: science, social policy, political participation, art, and religion.
Or should I say, religions.
Laws which target the ability to criticize something as flexible as the concept of God or religion will inevitably result in stripping people of the ability to speak out against those in authority - those with the ability to define "God," "blasphemy," and what is or is not "religion," and those with the power to enforce those laws. I would characterize such laws as a return to the dark ages. There is nothing anti-blasphemy laws can accomplish that cannot be accomplished through the human rights model. Canada has it exactly right.
Hey, you still lurking until you find a way to bash Israel? You made some accusations (lies) in another forum, then slithered away. And what do the two links you attached really say? The first that Canada is a leading nation in the fight against hate in the UN, which is a major issue currently. The second, the CAF claiming they are a friendly organization.
The big difference is that if there was a Jewish protest and people were chanting hateful racist things against other people, Jews would step forward and condemn them. These people would quickly be ostracized. On the other hand, many many Islamic protests include racist and purely evil claims, yet the rest are silent. Try being a Jewish student at many Canadian universities...
I think you meant to say "Lou Dobbs whines and talks about what a maverick he is, Christopher Hitchens takes on this resolution".
It's a good clip.
Someone should take a couple of these wacky mullahs aside and say "You know, if this law goes through, you aren't going to be able to say 'jews drink the blood of children' or talk about killing the Christian heathens anymore. You are going to have to come up with some new material. Is that a trade you are willing to make?"
The first article is about Canada sending delegates to a conference on anti-semitism. A quote from Canada's representative:
"One can criticize Israeli policies without being anti-Semitic."
The second article is an opinion piece from the CAF, which was a reply to an earlier opinion piece criticising their own organization.
In what way do these reflect a "curtailing" of freedom of speech by the conservative government?
Even though it was mentioned in the very first paragraph, the Tories are threatening to cut the funding of the CAF because of comments critical of the Government and of Israel. Perhaps this makes it easier for you. Sorry for assuming people might actually try and stay familiar with the issues.
Conservative government has gone further than any previous Canadian administration in uncritically supporting illegal and brutal Israeli assaults on Palestinian and Lebanese people. Prime Minister Stephen Harper and other prominent ministers have pledged complete allegiance with Israel and with Canadian organizations like the Canadian Jewish Congress and CIJA which uncritically support Israel. These Israel Lobby groups characterize any criticism of Israel as "anti-Semitism."
Anti-Semitism refers to hostility and/or prejudice against Jews. Like any other government, Israel has obligations under international law. To responsibly raise critical concerns about the discriminatory, illegal, and brutal policies of another government is an ethical imperative, which our own government should support. To label responsible critics of Israel policy "anti-Semitic" is a dishonest smoke-screen intended to discredit the critics.
As Jews, we affirm that criticizing Israeli policies is NOT anti-Semitic. More and more Jews world-wide, as well as in Israel openly oppose oppressive Israeli policies, and they also denounce this irresponsible use of the label "anti-Semitic."
The issue here is not whether CAF is anti-Semitic, which it certainly is not. We respect Khaled Mouammar as a man of principle and courage, who has consistently put himself and CAF on the line to support Jews. We believe that your government is threatening CAF's funding because it stands for justice for Palestinian people and because it expresses principled criticism of Israeli policies which oppress Canadian Arabs and their Palestinian friends and family. As Jews, Independent Jewish Voices frequently works in solidarity with CAF in these activities.
You may disagree but if the government is only going to fund the individuals that agree with them ....
(But that's Harper's MO isn't it?)
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Hey, you still lurking until you find a way to bash Israel? You made some accusations (lies) in another forum, then slithered away. And what do the two links you attached really say? The first that Canada is a leading nation in the fight against hate in the UN, which is a major issue currently. The second, the CAF claiming they are a friendly organization.
The big difference is that if there was a Jewish protest and people were chanting hateful racist things against other people, Jews would step forward and condemn them. These people would quickly be ostracized. On the other hand, many many Islamic protests include racist and purely evil claims, yet the rest are silent. Try being a Jewish student at many Canadian universities...
Ostracized you say? You mean like Avigdor Lieberman? No wait, this 'gentleman' is set to become a king maker in the next governing coalition of Israel.
The Forums favorite pundit Christopher Hitchens had this to say about Mr. Lieberman.
Quote:
Avigdor Lieberman ... the leader of a party that proposes to institute a "loyalty oath" not just to the Arab citizens of the state of Israel but to all Jewish members of religious Orthodox sects that do not declare themselves Zionist.
Quote:
Now we have to watch the rise of a thug and a demagogue who has called with relish for the execution of elected Arab members of Israel's parliament if they meet with Hamas, who has demanded the drowning of Palestinian prisoners in the Dead Sea, whose supporters chant "Death to the Arabs" at their rallies, and who has materialized the worst fears of those Arabs who have made the longest-lasting accommodation with the Jewish state.
And yet Canadian soldiers don't indiscriminately target ALL civilians in order to get at Al-Qaeda.
Thanks for making my point.
I did not make your point...Had there been rockets being fired at Canadian soldiers from a house, the house would be blown up by Canadian soldiers. When it is discovered that innocent people were in the house, you would have cried foul.
It is suckers like you that fall for this time and time again. And if you are no sucker, then you might be a hateful person, since I cannot fathom how people cannot see this. I know you do see this, yet you continue to repeat the rhetoric.
The big difference is that if there was a Jewish protest and people were chanting hateful racist things against other people, Jews would step forward and condemn them. These people would quickly be ostracized.
Unless the protestors then murdered a bunch of innocent Palestinian children in which case they would immediately be held up as "great men" by Israelis and Israeli apologists all over the world.
Even though it was mentioned in the very first paragraph, the Tories are threatening to cut the funding of the CAF because of comments critical of the Government and of Israel. Perhaps this makes it easier for you. Sorry for assuming people might actually try and stay familiar with the issues.
You may disagree but if the government is only going to fund the individuals that agree with them ....
(But that's Harper's MO isn't it?)
If you're going to make outlandish claims please back them up with actual sources.
I guess you are right. I'm not up on current events. If by current events you mean totally biased websites that promote racist and anti-semitic conspiracy theories (ie. "dialoguewithdiversity").
On their front page they have a story about how rabbis command jews to start wars, how they control they force the Canadian government to give them military aid through economic control, and how jews control the US media.
Did you seriously just reference that site, and then claim you are not an Anti-Semite.
If you're going to make outlandish claims please back them up with actual sources.
I guess you are right. I'm not up on current events. If by current events you mean totally biased websites that promote racist and anti-semitic conspiracy theories (ie. "dialoguewithdiversity").
On their front page they have a story about how rabbis command jews to start wars, how they control they force the Canadian government to give them military aid through economic control, and how jews control the US media.
Did you seriously just reference that site, and then claim you are not an Anti-Semite.
Tell me I didn't do that.
Obviously I'd wanted to provide a link supporting my belief that the Harper government was curtailing free speech by threatening to stop funding organizations that voiced opinions different than those of the government. As Blankall has pointed out, and as I should have discovered by looking at the main page of the site, I linked to what does appear to an antisemitic site.
I am deeply sorry for that and apologize to the forum.
I am a critic of what I believe to be poor policy as it relates to average Palestinians by the Israeli government, and have been very critical of what I believe are excesses committed by the IDF in Gaza. I am not however, an antisemite.
Thank you Blankall for pointing out my error and allowing me to set the record straight.
I admit that I am naive in this area, but its always perplexed me how people advocate so strongly that "their side" is right/the one facing all the suffering/etc while the other is the complete mean ones (yes extreme/gross over-generalization I know).
As far as I'm concerned, both sides are equally "at fault" if you will. The biggest challenge, to me, is just getting them to realize this.
I admit that I am naive in this area, but its always perplexed me how people advocate so strongly that "their side" is right/the one facing all the suffering/etc while the other is the complete mean ones (yes extreme/gross over-generalization I know).
As far as I'm concerned, both sides are equally "at fault" if you will. The biggest challenge, to me, is just getting them to realize this.
Yeeah,
Which side turned down Clinton's proposal for peace?
I mean he is a Democrat....and all Democrats are JEW....JOOOOSS...........ZIONIST apologist warMONGERS!
RRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright?
Last edited by HOZ; 02-28-2009 at 10:07 AM.
Reason: Need'n add'n
