Ann Coulter on teachers

[driveway]

Originally Posted by peter12

Absolutely not. I apologize for mis-referencing you as a teacher, it was my mistake.

While I don't agree that ALL teachers are lazy, I would say from my own fairly complete experience with both private and public education systems. That most teachers are a pretty entitled, whiny bunch. Why?

All I have to ask is where and when did you go to school? Because going through the Calgary public system from 1986-1998 I remember my teachers being almost always decent people who worked hard at a difficult job and every single one of them cared deeply about their students and education.

Sure there were plenty that I didn't get along with, but out of the three dozen teachers I must have had in 12 years I can think of ... one. One teacher who clearly didn't give a damn about her job and she was brand-new to the profession.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

If everyone had the same opinion, it would be kind of boring around here wouldn't it?
Revising opinions to get others approval? Only a complete pansy would do that.

Wow, you really didn't understand what I meant. No, you shouldn't revise your opinion in order to get approval from others - however if you hold an opinion and everyone disagrees with it, perhaps it means that you should start thinking about why they do. Maybe your opinion is based on out-dated information, unfortunate personal biases or a lack of understanding of the topic.

I didn't mean that our lovable Dess should change his opinion to match other peoples, only that he probably doesn't know what he's talking about.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I kind of agree with DESS. Every future teacher I talk to is so excited about having an awesome salary complete with less hours and a mammoth summer break.

Talk to them again after they have been in the system for a while...I am married to a teacher and have a bunch of them as friends/family, so I see the amount of time they put in...

[V]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I kind of agree with DESS. Every future teacher I talk to is so excited about having an awesome salary complete with less hours and a mammoth summer break.

What awesome salary??

My dad's a teacher of many years. I can tell you that within my first 4 years as an engineer I was making more money than him. Now, 7 years in, I make double.

He does get a lot of time off. Unfortunately, he needs to use a considerable amount of that time to work at his 'summer' and 'Christmas' jobs to pay the bills. On the other hand, I get 6 weeks of holidays every year.

He works quite a few extra hours throughout the week. I work a solid 40 hour week, maybe 45 if it's really busy, and I'm done.

Granted, he's not one of those crappy teachers. He participates in a lot of the extra-cirricular activities, as volleyball coach and others.

I'd have to say, if these future teachers are really serious about their expectations, they're in for a world of hurt.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by driveway

All I have to ask is where and when did you go to school? Because going through the Calgary public system from 1986-1998 I remember my teachers being almost always decent people who worked hard at a difficult job and every single one of them cared deeply about their students and education.

Sure there were plenty that I didn't get along with, but out of the three dozen teachers I must have had in 12 years I can think of ... one. One teacher who clearly didn't give a damn about her job and she was brand-new to the profession.

Hey, I'm not giving all teachers as bad rap. I had some great teachers, I also had some really, really awful teachers, and the rest were really just mediocre.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by peter12

While I don't agree that ALL teachers are lazy, I would say from my own fairly complete experience with both private and public education systems. That most teachers are a pretty entitled, whiny bunch. Why?

My wife was in IT before she switched careers and went into teaching. The one thing she notices is that a lot of teachers don't have any idea how the "corporate world" works (of course, the argument could be made that people in the corporate world don't know anything about any other types of environments)

Maybe if there was an ounce of reward available for teachers on the basis of merit, instead of years spent in the system. Maybe if there was a way for more direct disciplinary actions towards the many teachers who use and abuse their position of authority over students as if it was a God-given right.

Plenty of teachers that I have talked to would love some sort of meritocracy - but every unionized environment will put value on seniority over anything else...

Maybe if parents were allowed more input into the educational process.

Not sure how many parents have any clue about handling/teaching kids...enough parents treat schools as babysitters, don't they?

Just my $0.02

[peter12]

Originally Posted by ah123

My wife was in IT before she switched careers and went into teaching. The one thing she notices is that a lot of teachers don't have any idea how the "corporate world" works (of course, the argument could be made that people in the corporate world don't know anything about any other types of environments)



Plenty of teachers that I have talked to would love some sort of meritocracy - but every unionized environment will put value on seniority over anything else...



Not sure how many parents have any clue about handling/teaching kids...enough parents treat schools as babysitters, don't they?

Just my $0.02

That attitude is the heart of the problem!!! Unbelievable!

[ah123]

Originally Posted by peter12

That attitude is the heart of the problem!!! Unbelievable!

Not saying that you don't know how to deal with kids - but I have seen first hand how the teachers I know need to deal with the problems the kids have at home (e.g. kids being used as pawns in divorce cases, parents who can't/won't discipline kids, etc)....

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Coulter's an embarassment to humanity. And thats putting it nicely.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by peter12

That attitude is the heart of the problem!!! Unbelievable!

You don't believe that is true?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by John Doe

You don't believe that is true?

I think it's one of the worst institutional fallacies thrust upon us as Canadian citizens.

[moon]

Originally Posted by V

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to be a teacher.

The hours suck

8am-4pm, 5 days a week with two months off in the summer sucks?

I would take those hours any day of the week.

the pay sucks

since when?

They don't end up making millions (but who really does) they have a very good starting wage, great benefits/pension and insane job security.

doesn't sound too bad to me.

and the recognition sucks.

How does the recognition suck? You hear people talking all the time about how great there grade 2 teacher was and how they were the reason they were able to become a super billionaire/cure cancer etc.

I think this is a major factor for why there are so many terrible teachers out there.

The major factor as to why they are terrible teachers out there is that it is easy to do nothing and still keep your job at the same rate of pay. Other than a sense of pride there really is no reason not to be a terrible teacher.

[troutman]

If teaching is such a great gig, how many of you would give up your jobs to do it?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

If teaching is such a great gig, how many of you would give up your jobs to do it?

I've actually been seriously considering a move to teaching after I finish my Masters. I just don't think it would be intellectually stimulating enough, plus all the administrative rigour would be a bore.

But I do think that enlightened teaching is one of the highest callings of humanity.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I have had some amazing teachers, mostly at the University level in the Humanities dept but I remember some very gifted teachers from my gradeschool education as well. I would consider teaching at some level but it would probably have to be a level where the students had chosen to be there, so probably uni level. Not sure I'm willing to do a master and PhD to get there though.

Thanks got out to DESS who has forced me to re-learn how to add someone to my ignore list. You're a real special one buddy.

[moon]

Originally Posted by troutman

If teaching is such a great gig, how many of you would give up your jobs to do it?

I hate other peoples kids so I have no desire to do it, but that doens't mean that it is some horrible job.

I would say that 99% of jobs out there I wouldn't want to do, but it doesn't mean that they aren't great gigs for the people that do it.

I would hate to be a lawyer but it seems to work for you, does me not wanting to do it make it any less of a "great gig"?

[DESS]

Originally Posted by troutman

If teaching is such a great gig, how many of you would give up your jobs to do it?

I would, but starting at 32 would screw me out of a good pension unless I worked well into my 60s. I would be taking an overall pay cut, but my pay per hour worked would skyrocket since teachers are essentially part-time employees with full-time wages.

[LChoy]

Interesting debate so far
I think that it takes a very special human being to be a good teacher. There are those that go above and beyond the call of duty, and it's not just the 6-8 month of the year and laid back type of career that some think it is. However, the reality is that the number of kids into our schools is increasing and the level of support isn't as much as there use to be. The demand for teachers have increased accordingly. It is unfortunate, but there are people becoming teachers that don't share these noble ideals that we expect. I maintain that there are still many teachers that remain passionate and deserve our respect, but there are enough of them to give teachers a bad name

Lastly, this is something that could be said about a lot of professions. Among the least respected professions are lawyer and politicians, but I am sure that there are some many good individuals in those fields. In my world, I have known some great doctors that put in their own time and really care about their patients. On the other hand, I have known those that are doctors solely for the money and prestige, and would not hesitate to throw a patient out of the door if they were unable to pay, or their problem was not covered under their scope of practice

[RougeUnderoos]

I love these threads. A bunch of desk jockeys yakking in the middle of a work day about how easy the teachers have it.

And DESS, just for interests sake, can you tell us what schools played a role in educating you?

[DESS]

CBE and UofC.