Update on Transit Cop - 13 Hours in jail for not having Canadian ID

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

If a real cop asks you for ID and you say "No thanks" I guarantee he is going to make your day miserable.

Only because the only time they ask for your ID is if they are investigating an offence they believe you may have committed. As a rule, cops don't walk up and arbitrarily ask to see your ID.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Fact remains, I don't tell my doctor how to 'doctor'. I don't judge the thing he does as being anything more then trying to promote my health for my benefit. Why isn't that people do it with cops. With little or no background knowledge of policing- training, policies, etc., people judge, criticize and generally ize the professional like no other. This board is getting really bad for it.

You know, you're right.
If you're not a teacher you should have no say or complaints about what happens to your kids while at school. You don't have the background!
If you're not a politician, you shouldn't be allowed to criticize the government. Further, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Just submit to their will. After all, what do you know - you don't have a masters in political science.
You're not a lawyer? Well you shouldn't ask questions about the law or in any way try to research it. Just do what they say and you'll be fine.
They're all acting in my best interest. Always. If you're not one of them, you're too ignorant to understand what they do and why they do it anyway.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Only because the only time they ask for your ID is if they are investigating an offence they believe you may have committed. As a rule, cops don't walk up and arbitrarily ask to see your ID.

Except, of course, if you're black, even if you aren't doing anything wrong...

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Canada is no more or less racist than the US.

The only way I could see someone thinking this was true is if they haven't travelled much in the US and Canada. If you have, I have no idea where you get this idea from.

Walk down the wrong street in the wrong neighbourhood in the US and you'll get yelled at and confronted because of your race.

I challenge you to find me a street in Canada where that will consistently happen.

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

You know, you're right.
If you're not a teacher you should have no say or complaints about what happens to your kids while at school. You don't have the background!
If you're not a politician, you shouldn't be allowed to criticize the government. Further, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Just submit to their will. After all, what do you know - you don't have a masters in political science.
You're not a lawyer? Well you shouldn't ask questions about the law or in any way try to research it. Just do what they say and you'll be fine.
They're all acting in my best interest. Always. If you're not one of them, you're too ignorant to understand what they do and why they do it anyway.

You kinda missed the point. You have every right to ask questions and do some research. But don't go spouting off about some perceived injustice when you have very little background about the subject.

Originally Posted by fokakya

That's just plain untrue. To be charged with an offense is to be accused by the law enforcement officer of committing said offense. She could very easily have been charged with obstruction if that's what the officer chose to accuse her of. Legally, it is very possible. What is not legally possible (at least in theory, not so much in practice) is to be convicted of a crime you did not commit. That's where the courts and the burden of proof come in.

Ummm... in order to be 'accused' and charged, the police generally need some sort of reasonable and probable grounds to do so. Thus, as I stated, it is NOT legally possible to be charged with an offence if the cop/transit officer does not have to grounds to do so. It must stand an objective and subjective test. That being said, there are bad cops and there are poor decisions made. But those are very infrequent.

[jammies]

My guess is she refused to provide a name or ID "because I wasn't doing anything wrong"; in her view, she was being harassed for no reason and thus the story gets amplified and distorted to bring the listener onto her side. She isn't exactly lying, she is just omitting the details that make her story make sense in the mistaken view that it makes her case stronger.

There are almost undoubtedly cops and transit cops who harbour racial prejudice in this city; however it seems beyond the bounds of plausibility that she would be singled out for harassment twice by different officers solely due to such prejudice. Some of the prejudice in this case is clearly HERS - if she's looking for a racist, maybe she should look in the mirror as she is clearly assuming she knows the motivations behind the actions of these officers simply because they don't share her skin colour.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by jammies

My guess is she refused to provide a name or ID "because I wasn't doing anything wrong"; in her view, she was being harassed for no reason and thus the story gets amplified and distorted to bring the listener onto her side. She isn't exactly lying, she is just omitting the details that make her story make sense in the mistaken view that it makes her case stronger.

I would be willing to wager large amounts of money that this is exactly what happened.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

You kinda missed the point. You have every right to ask questions and do some research. But don't go spouting off about some perceived injustice when you have very little background about the subject.

No, I think you missed the point.
Please never criticize what the government is doing then. Or vote. Cause you don't have the background about the subject.

Also, you should go and lecture all those guys spouting off in the main forum about hockey. I very much doubt many of them have much experience playing, coaching or GMing NHL level hockey.

[BlackArcher101]

Hack&Lube, you mention this in your previous thread @ http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=70094

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I'm worried she might have been beligerent or something because she has a very...American attitude about fighting with the police and claiming racial prejudice, etc. due to her experiences there and doesn't really realize that it's not quite the same here.

Something made you think about that before and obviously there are roots for perhaps "bad" behavior with the police. If so, then I am highly skeptical that this new story is in fact the entire story. Perhaps she was actually belligerent and now doesn't want to admit to it.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Titan

From the Highway Traffic Act

165 Any person crossing or walking on a highway in a manner
contrary to this Act or any municipal bylaw regulating pedestrian
traffic shall, on request, give that person's name and address to any
peace officer who so requests.
RSA 1980 cH-7 s165

So the transit cop is ok to ask her name and address but apparently he can't ask for actual identification. Have not looked at case law or other leg. yet.

Highway Traffice Act has been replaced by the Traffice Safety Act, but I am sure it contain similair wording

[mykalberta]

This combined with the previous thread that indicated that a cop has up to 60 or 90 days to charge you with something (not serious, but traffic related), just adds to my overall distrust of police in general.

[Pickins]

We haven't heard the cop's side of the story, so I will defer judgement for now. However, I can say that the general public, in large part, have no idea who these Transit Peace Officers are or what their authorities permit them to do. Most people think (with a LOT of help from the media) that they're just security guards, and a few foolishly dismiss them only to end up in handcuffs, or worse, in jail or even charged criminally. Let's face it, everyone will paint themselves a saint having done nothing wrong in the slightest when the big bad cop came along and pounded them for no good reason. I find it very hard to believe that this cop would take such drastic measures for absolutely no reason at all. A simple rule for not getting arrested by Transit Peace Officers or City Cops, follow direction.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Highway Traffice Act has been replaced by the Traffice Safety Act, but I am sure it contain similair wording

Damn I hate mistakes like that:


Stopping for peace officer
166(1) For the purposes of administering and enforcing this Act or a bylaw, a peace officer may
(a) with respect to a vehicle,
(i) signal or direct a driver of a vehicle to stop the vehicle, and
(ii) request information from the driver of the vehicle and any passengers in the vehicle,
and
(b) with respect to a pedestrian using or located on a highway, request information from that pedestrian.
(2) When signalled or directed to stop by a peace officer who is readily identifiable as a peace officer, a driver of a vehicle shall
(a) forthwith bring the vehicle to a stop,
(b) forthwith furnish to the peace officer any information respecting the driver or the vehicle that the peace officer requires, and
(c) remain stopped until permitted by the peace officer to leave.
(3) At the request of a peace officer who is readily identifiable as a peace officer, a passenger in a vehicle who is acting in a manner that is contrary to this Act or a bylaw shall forthwith furnish to the peace officer the passenger’s name and address.
(4) At the request of a peace officer who is readily identifiable as a peace officer, a pedestrian using or located on a highway in a manner contrary to this Act or a bylaw shall forthwith furnish to the peace officer the pedestrian’s name and address.
1999 cT‑6.4 s166

[4X4]

Originally Posted by jammies

My guess is she refused to provide a name or ID "because I wasn't doing anything wrong"; in her view, she was being harassed for no reason and thus the story gets amplified and distorted to bring the listener onto her side. She isn't exactly lying, she is just omitting the details that make her story make sense in the mistaken view that it makes her case stronger.

There are almost undoubtedly cops and transit cops who harbour racial prejudice in this city; however it seems beyond the bounds of plausibility that she would be singled out for harassment twice by different officers solely due to such prejudice. Some of the prejudice in this case is clearly HERS - if she's looking for a racist, maybe she should look in the mirror as she is clearly assuming she knows the motivations behind the actions of these officers simply because they don't share her skin colour.

Totally agree with this. And I'd like to clarify something... Does she have an outstanding fine with transit?

So from my perspective, and this is all assumptions, I'm kind of imaging that she was jaywalking on 7th ave which we all know they're total Nazis about (because they're sick of peeling earphone wearing kids off the front of trains). When she got stopped by a rent-a-cop, she probably went a little haywire. I mean, she's already got a grudge against c-pigs and now they're stopping her for something that isn't universally illegal and is enforced at various frequencys. That's probably where she figured he was getting racist.
Now she's choked that he's racist and becomes belligerent and refuses to give ID because a) she probably thinks it's ridiculous to get fined for jaywalking and b) she doesn't want to get jacked for the no ticket fine from before...
And of course, if she's the 'strong woman' that she's been alluded to, I can see her getting pretty upset pretty quickly off of her very own assumptions.

I, personally, have a little more faith in the transit cops. I very highly doubt that they were merely sitting in their van and then decided to go "harass some n*****" "Hey there's one!!" "lets git 'er"

And last but not least, I could care less what this chick thinks of our city. She already decided against us when she refused to accept responsibility for her bus transfer. Too bad, so sad. You let your ticket blow away, buy another ticket. I bet that every single person that ever gets a non payment of fare ticket says that. "Oh I must of lost it!! I had it just a minute ago". Think about how often those guys hear it. They probably just skip straight to "gimme your ID". And she, perhaps because she from Atlanta, just assumed that she was being picked on for being black.
Sorry, sister... We all get picked on when we don't have a ticket on the train.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by Pickins

We haven't heard the cop's side of the story, so I will defer judgement for now. However, I can say that the general public, in large part, have no idea who these Transit Peace Officers are or what their authorities permit them to do. Most people think (with a LOT of help from the media) that they're just security guards, and a few foolishly dismiss them only to end up in handcuffs, or worse, in jail or even charged criminally. Let's face it, everyone will paint themselves a saint having done nothing wrong in the slightest when the big bad cop came along and pounded them for no good reason. I find it very hard to believe that this cop would take such drastic measures for absolutely no reason at all. A simple rule for not getting arrested by Transit Peace Officers or City Cops, follow direction.

Wake up.

These guys have the biggest egos on them of all. Don't let them find out you or someone you are with is a real cop or you are really in for trouble. A friend of mine was harrassed by a group of them and ticketed for disturbing the peace on a downtown c train station at 11 at night for simply exchanging words between a few people to why 10 of them were standing around at one spot for 20 minutes when people are getting assaulted at stations all over the city. They happened to overhear this and acted like someone had just sold hard drugs infront of them.

These guys are the lowest of all.

[HPLovecraft]

Try meeting a transit cop in Toronto. Fun times!

[Rahim]

What else is new with Calgary. Its redneck inbred attitude is not going to change. I bought a transit ticket on Wednesday at the machines. Transit Cops got on and checked my ticket as if it was fake. He checked my ticket for a good 3-4 minutes and was staring me down. Finally he he gave it back to me while other non colored passengers had no problems. Its a ongoing issue and no one is going to do anything about it. Calgary will never be a world class city. Its just another dump like Dallas, Texas.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Something made you think about that before and obviously there are roots for perhaps "bad" behavior with the police. If so, then I am highly skeptical that this new story is in fact the entire story. Perhaps she was actually belligerent and now doesn't want to admit to it.

I have my suspicions that she could have been belligerent as well, it's not usually in her character but again, I don't know what somebody would do in that sort of a situation. All I know is that she's seemed really hurt and quiet these few days.

I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore as it's not my business and I don't want to pry into her affairs. I know she is contacting several different authorities here and even in the U.S. to deal with the situation. I just think that overall, it's a pretty crappy thing to be a regular law-abiding citizen who has never been in trouble before, a vistor to the country no less, and crossing the street only to end up in jail for 13 hours. A pretty traumatic experience. At least she wasn't tasered to death.


As for the criticisms against transit cops, I think that is merited and corroborated by some stories people have. In this case, nomatter where fault ultimately lies, it was probably shared if she was a bit angry and not completely cooperative. I'm told the transit cop wouldn't listen to her side of the story and was just berrating her for jaywalking like he lost his temper..the way the cop handled the situation was unfair and I feel uncalled for as she definetely was calling up to the office for somebody to bring her some more ID or someone to come down and confirm her identity when she asked for the dude's name and suddenly - presto! Arrested.

[Jayems]

edit: re-read

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I just think that overall, it's a pretty crappy thing to be a regular law-abiding citizen who has never been in troble before,

But here's the thing H&L, just from what I'm reading.

That she vowed "that she wouldn't be paying a dime to take the transit" suggests that she is anything but that.

Regular law abiding citizens don't skip fares.