Opinions on the Stimulus Bill

[Daradon]

In an article that I'm sure will please some of the critics of the American liberalson the board, Jack Cafferty, normally a democrat booster, has some big problems with the stimulus bill, placing a lot of blame at the feet of Reid and Pelosi, but not letting the big man off the hook either.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...lus/index.html

What's the solution? How do the U.S. billmakers get rid of the pork projects when both sides seem so entrenched in their ways? Will we ever see bipartisanship, or are both sides going to continue to sacrifise the countries future for their own projects, and the luxury of being able to say, 'I was right, you were wrong,' instead of working with each other?

Sometimes I truly think that many of the lawmakers already see the impending doom on the horizon and have givne up trying to stave it off or make a difference, and instead are worried only about building up their families and their houses against the umcoming storm.

[metal_geek]

You can stimulate all you want... Throw out another trillion dollars or more I don't think it's gonna make much of a difference.

The vast majority of people who are gonna "spend" the economy out of this have bankrupt themselves with credit and the very spending that fueled the economic growth over the last 10 - 15 years.. giving them a fraction of that money now is either gonna reduce their debt load a small percentage or at best give them another month of free spending bliss...


Good luck I'd say... Take our medicine now or later IMO.. the sooner the better. Without this last hurah would prolly hurt the least in the long run..

[mykalberta]

Saint Obama can do not wrong, or so I have been told.

I will wait 4 years before I pass judgement.

[Weiser Wonder]

Each member of Congress only has a major incentive to do what's best for his or her district and that's why you see Congress work so poorly on a national scale. Congress actually works extremely well from the standpoint of each representative representing their constituent's desires. If you look at the stimulus package, Pelosi's and Reid's districts will probably benefit greatly from it.

Frankly, it's going to be tough to get anything done properly in Congress because of this. No MC is going to want to risk re-election for national interest and that's what needs to happen for proper legislation to pass. It's up to Obama to strong-arm that type of legislation through.

[Azure]

Waste of money. A lot of stuff on that bill that has absolutely no reason to be there.

I was thinking the other day. Why doesn't the government stick money into building 15 new nuclear power plants? That would be a 'good' long-term stimulant.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Azure

Waste of money. A lot of stuff on that bill that has absolutely no reason to be there.

I was thinking the other day. Why doesn't the government stick money into building 15 new nuclear power plants? That would be a 'good' long-term stimulant.

Because more than half the country has strong misgivings about nuclear power.

Something a lot of people don't know about Congress is one member of the Senate can kill legislation. Compromising to that level is nearly impossible. It leads to compromises that everyone hates.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Because more than half the country has strong misgivings about nuclear power.

Something a lot of people don't know about Congress is one member of the Senate can kill legislation. Compromising to that level is nearly impossible. It leads to compromises that everyone hates.

But the rest of the country has no problem with the government wasting money to supposedly 'stimulate' the economy?

Buying doorbells, paint shakers, building dog parks, historical stuff.....nobody has a problem with that?

[Gozer]

To me, it looks like the Dems saying "If we were in power we would have spent money on this instead of a war."

Understandable, but irresponsible.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Azure

I was thinking the other day. Why doesn't the government stick money into building 15 new nuclear power plants? That would be a 'good' long-term stimulant.

Why go with something that is known and works, when you can spend untold billions researching something new that won't turn out.

[PIMking]

What did Ronald Regan do when he took office? I think Obama is doing the exact opposite. Now im wishing I didnt vote for him..

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PIMking

What did Ronald Regan do when he took office? I think Obama is doing the exact opposite. Now im wishing I didnt vote for him..

Maybe I 'should' have posted more in the election threads closer to Nov 4.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Gozer

To me, it looks like the Dems saying "If we were in power we would have spent money on this instead of a war."

Understandable, but irresponsible.

Well half of it anyway. The dems dont' really want to waste an opportunity to spend money when the American Public seem to be on side for this. Imagine the headlines had a lot of these expenditures taken place a few years ago.

I also take issue with the rationale for the stimulus, because ultimately for it to actually have the effect they are looking for the only efficient vehicle of disbursement of these funds quick enough would be for them to load bombers full of cash and start dumping it from the skys over the nation. By the time the effect of this is felt the economy will already be on it's way to recovery and any job losses they will have hoped to prevent would have already happened. Inflation will be the new buzzword as government contracts will bid up the prices for materials also demanded by the free market. The speed in which the bill was drafted has also ensures that there will be corruption and mismanagement of funds to gross proportions.

With all that said the one good thing to come of this is that it is a message to the people out there that really don't make rational economic decisions for themselves. For anyone so deathly afraid of spending any money for fears of the Next Great Depression, this signals to them that maybe just maybe this will only be a moderate recession and that amid the doom and gloom it's okay to make purchases and continue on life as usual and that most likely things will work out alright for them individually. The marcro effect of people feeling more at ease could push people out of 'batton down the hatches' mode and bring us out of recession quicker.

I only wish it didn't come at the expense of an entire future generation's tax burden, a rivival of Kaynesian economics, and an unwarrented tarnishing in the public's opinion of free-market economics. I have a feeling that the opportunity cost of all of this is immense. Considering that recessions are a normal function of the business cycle and generally come along every 10 or so years, it's dangerous to set a precident of handcuffing the financial capabilty of an entire future generation to prevent short-term economic pain. Also I would like to add that even Kaynes himself suggested that governments cut back in good times, in practice the cut backs come too late and in too small numbers to fully compensate the large expenditures made while being justified in his name.

[PIMking]

Yeah but the problem with this spending is that im 23 (24 march 18th) the taxes that are going to be raised for the amount of national debt is going to be outragous. My kids and Grandkids are going to be screwed.

People are scared to spend money right now. So the great Obama thinks its a good idea to take money from other countries and put us further in debt to get people to spend money?

And this bill is full of PORK millions for crap. millions to move buildings. millions on cars.

Hell even our local government here in muscatine just taken a vote and voted themselfs a 10% raise when half the city roads have huge potholes.

American politics are horrible full of rich people only looking to pad there pockets. We need some no name farmer that grew up modest that actually knows how to take care of himself and family without screwing everyone else over its about time for an average joe to become president.

[Sylvanfan]

My boss was reading a book called the Ascent of Money and I read a couple chapters while he was napping at the Airport one day. What the book touched on was that by doing all this spending it will just lead to a devaluation in the US dollar and cause inflation. In essence by devaluing their currency and creating inflation it would in turn make the debt value worth less. If you consider the costs of most basic things in the US compared to Europe or Japan, they could handle a bit of inflation to bring costs in line with what the rest of the world pays for goods.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by PIMking

American politics are horrible full of rich people only looking to pad there pockets. We need some no name farmer that grew up modest that actually knows how to take care of himself and family without screwing everyone else over its about time for an average joe to become president.

We have this in Alberta right now. Can't say it's worked out all that well.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Azure

But the rest of the country has no problem with the government wasting money to supposedly 'stimulate' the economy?

Buying doorbells, paint shakers, building dog parks, historical stuff.....nobody has a problem with that?

Not if it's going to their district.

And on a larger scale, the country seems to be in favor of the infrastructure spending in order to get the economy going. That's why the Democrats won so handily.

The idea of this stimulus package is to create jobs, not just flood the economy with money. I really don't see a better plan or anything to suggest one school of economics knows better than the Keynesian school.

[peter12]

The Economist has a good piece on the weakness of the stimulus bill.

My opinion, either too little, too late or just way too much pork. Great line I heard the other week, infrastructure spending only goes to "shovel-ready" projects. Well, suddenly everyone has a shovel.

Keynesian spending measures have never worked. Monetary policy is one thing and I think only the most radical Austrian would argue against their ultimate economic effectiveness, but the evidence does point towards the massive failure of political intervention into economics.

[llama64]

Stimulus bill? Terribad legacy crap from the Bush/Reagan era of incredibly dumb, shortsighted economic policies. (note: Clinton also screwd the pooch in there as well)

Just about everyone on all sides of the equation hate this bill -- assuming they aren't getting kick backs from it.

Heck, I've read editorials from self-described libertarians who think that the best course of action is to have the Federal government buy the banks, fix them and resell them.

[Azure]

I don't have any faith that the government will fix anything, much less the 'banks.'

[HOZ]

Porkulous is 900 zillion down the toilet. Waste. Might as well hand that money directly to each and every person.