Calgary Transit: Debating eliminating free-fare zone

[habernac]

Originally Posted by kevman

How do they enforce it on every train or bus I've ever taken in Europe?

You tell me, I've never been there. The lack of any turnstiles, gates, etc is a problem. Even then, you'd have to have more people to check tickets at the different stops.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by kevman

I'm all for it!

As long as they introduce fair zones across the city while they're at it!

There is no way a ride from Sunnyside to 8th street should cost the same as taking a feeder bus to Somerset and then taking the train downtown.

$2.50 to ride the train from 8th street to 3rd street? Yeah Right!

If they do decide to discriminate fares based on how far you travel, I would bet all the cash in my pocket right now that you wouldn't see a reduction in the cost of a fare from Sunnyside to 8th. Instead, you would see in increase in the fees for longer rides. Sort of like how some community shuttles pay an extra 50 cents (or so), allegedly, because there are fewer stops along the way or something.

Unless they start charging like taxis do (e.g., 20 cents per 1 km) there is always going to be some arbitrary point at which the higher fees kick in. People who travel just beyond that arbitrary point are going to be pissed that people who get off one stop earlier pay less than they do. Can't think of an easy way around that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by fredr123

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...76456-sun.html

Citing problems providing a safe ride for everyone, the City is pondering eliminating the downtown free-fare zone. Polls, apparently, suggest riders and transit workers don't feel safe on the train at night as it seems to be home to a lot of illegitimate users.

Yep Calgary always seems to take the logical way to fixing problems.

I think most cities would look to add more peace officers if security was an issue. Calgary? Lets just shut it down so we don't have to address the real problem.

Very typical of Calgary thinking about such issues. I think they said on the news yesterday that Vancouver has 1 transit peace officer per 1800 riders whereas we have 1 per 4400 riders. For a city so gung ho on police in general its inconsistent that they don't look to add more officers for transit.

Neither does it make sense to me how elminating a free ride zone is a specific solution to the problem of users riding late night trains. Maybe hire more transit cops for 10 pm to close? Gosh, that doesn't make much sense.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Maybe they should look into a free hobo stabbing zone instead.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by habernac

You tell me, I've never been there. The lack of any turnstiles, gates, etc is a problem. Even then, you'd have to have more people to check tickets at the different stops.

In the Czech republic there were actually plain clothes officers that would discreetly flash their badge at you and make you show your proof of fare while on the tram. Made it quite a bit sneakier than in North America cause you literally could not see them coming.

Other places did have turnstiles, turnstiles that wouldn't open without swiping a valid ticket. Obviously that would be a huge infrastructure problem as we don't have the right equipment for that.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

In the Czech republic there were actually plain clothes officers that would discreetly flash their badge at you and make you show your proof of fare while on the tram. Made it quite a bit sneakier than in North America cause you literally could not see them coming.

Other places did have turnstiles, turnstiles that wouldn't open without swiping a valid ticket. Obviously that would be a huge infrastructure problem as we don't have the right equipment for that.

that's exactly what I was getting at

[CGYTransplant]

Edmonton eliminated their free fare zone in the downtown core.

Ridership plummeted, and the vagrant issue remained the same.

Making someone pay to ride the train two blocks because they're late for a meeting isn't going to make the trains safer. Stabby hobos, drunks and the intoxicated don't pay to take the train.

Calgary just needs Transit cops to patrol the trains and remove the troublesome riders.

And, if you're REALLY looking for a cash cow, have transit passes and tickets linked to your home address when you purchase them. Then charge anyone who doesn't pay City of Calgary taxes more.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Damnit that means those guys are gonna charge an extra $2.50 on every gun I purchase!

[enthused]

I'd be fine with them eliminating the fare-free zone.

For people that ride it from one downtown station to another, if you don't want to pay $2.50, walk! It wont kill you. Plus the train seems to take forever to get through downtown, so you'd probably get where you want to go quicker by walking anyway.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Jayems

1) Like the bums are going to pay for the fare.
2) Like the bums are going to pay for the ticket.

No, but right now anybody found to be "loitering" at a downtown LRT station can now say "oh, I'm just waiting for the train." Same as all the dealers hanging out by Crack Mac's.

Now police have reason to ask for a ticket, and then ask to see ID.

Is this the ultimate solution? No. But it's a step in the right direction.

As for the 3% number that CT thinks isn't paying- I don't see that. I don't take the train often, but the last time I was checked was on an empty car at Anderson back in 1993. And I know of people who take it daily and say it is cheaper to risk the $250 ticket as they haven't been checked in years either.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by ken0042

No, but right now anybody found to be "loitering" at a downtown LRT station can now say "oh, I'm just waiting for the train." Same as all the dealers hanging out by Crack Mac's.

Now police have reason to ask for a ticket, and then ask to see ID.

Is this the ultimate solution? No. But it's a step in the right direction.

As for the 3% number that CT thinks isn't paying- I don't see that. I don't take the train often, but the last time I was checked was on an empty car at Anderson back in 1993. And I know of people who take it daily and say it is cheaper to risk the $250 ticket as they haven't been checked in years either.

It's only $150

[jammies]

This will impact me negatively so I say keep the free fares. I don't care about what issues it may solve for everyone else.

[REDVAN]

I know a bunch of people who don't pay... no tickets for them yet.

I have a U-Pass with the university. I don't take the train often (I drive) but for games and drinking nights, I do. My favorite thing is when the transit cops see you get on the train without getting or punching your ticket, and then walk over to you all smug-like. Then I bust out the pass on my ID card and laugh.

If you are working making the big bucks downtown (aka fulltime) then you can afford a buspass. I'm in favour of removing the free-zone.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

If you are working making the big bucks downtown (aka fulltime) then you can afford a buspass. I'm in favour of removing the free-zone.

Not everyone that works downtown makes big bucks. Myself included. I want the free fare zone to remain as is.

That is until I find a job out of down town. lol

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

It's only $150

And if you argue your case (ie BS excuse), it usually gets knocked down to $100.

$100 fine every year or 2>>>>$75.00 monthly pass

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

I know a bunch of people who don't pay... no tickets for them yet.

I have a U-Pass with the university. I don't take the train often (I drive) but for games and drinking nights, I do. My favorite thing is when the transit cops see you get on the train without getting or punching your ticket, and then walk over to you all smug-like. Then I bust out the pass on my ID card and laugh.

If you are working making the big bucks downtown (aka fulltime) then you can afford a buspass. I'm in favour of removing the free-zone.

i go half and half. i don't validate my ticket in the morning as i can't see how the cops would check tickets on the train in rush hour when it's impossible to move in them, but i ride home later at night so i validate my return trips since i've heard they check a lot more often during the non-peak hours (still have never been asked to show a ticket yet though)

[maverickstruth]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

i can't see how the cops would check tickets on the train in rush hour when it's impossible to move in them

2-3 times in the past couple of months, I have been checked on the platform after getting off the train. The platforms are fare-required zones too, so that's one way they can check even during rush.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by maverickstruth

2-3 times in the past couple of months, I have been checked on the platform after getting off the train. The platforms are fare-required zones too, so that's one way they can check even during rush.

except i get off in the downtown core, which is free. course my tactic will probably have to change if they do remove the fare free zone, but right now it works pretty good