Toronto Raptors 8/9 Season Thread - Page 7 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

JohnnyFlame · 02-05-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

You won't get a legit top-end guy. Mephis traded Gasol for Jarvis Critterton, he might end up being a terrific player in a couple years but he's hardly a "star to be." I'd take a guy like Gay or Mayo, but I don't see it happening.

It's more of a role issue. In this new team, Amare plays under the basket while Bargs floats around. Bargs defends post scorers and Amare assumes reboudning & shotblocking (I'm under the impression he is better at both than Bosh).

On the current Raps, we don't have a single player that plays in the paint.
Bosh = midrange face up iso
Bargs = threes & screens
ONeal = midrange fadeaway

I don't know, I'm not swearing by the trade, I just don't see any way we trade Bosh away and upgrade the team. And rebuilding to be a contender once Boston's window has closed doesn't appeal to me as a fan, nor as a competitor since NY might be a superheavyweight come '10.

BC said in an interview today that the offers coming in on Bosh have been spectacular. I don't have any doubt teams will line up to grab him and will offer up a whole collection of youngsters, solids and picks to get him. Reminds me of when my Dallas Cowboys traded Herschel Walker and got like 5 guys and 5 picks for him (dont' remember exactly) and they parlayed that into bigtime improvement. So could BC.

Gozer · 02-05-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

You are right that he is overrating O'Neals value. That one will be about contracts, perhaps injury replacement etc. No team is going to give up much for O'Neal. Not until next year when his expiring will be very attractive.

Generally that's true, but given the special circumstances of the '10 free agency that might not hold up. If we take back a better player that is signed through '10 then that has value outside of the actual trade, mainly for big market teams (otherwise Okafor could fit this description).

I wanna be like Miikka · 02-05-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

BC said in an interview today that the offers coming in on Bosh have been spectacular. I don't have any doubt teams will line up to grab him and will offer up a whole collection of youngsters, solids and picks to get him. Reminds me of when my Dallas Cowboys traded Herschel Walker and got like 5 guys and 5 picks for him (dont' remember exactly) and they parlayed that into bigtime improvement. So could BC.

If that is the case then Bosh should be moved for sure.

I didn't know the details about the Marion deal, but regardless I think JO will not get that much for the Raps, in the end what they do with him will be pretty inconsequential barring a lube-job deal by BC.

How the Bosh situation is handled could either keep this franchise relatively sturdy or send it spiralling down for 5 years, I hope they can get a great return for him and I hope they do now. I am a huge Bosh fan, I have his jersey and everything but I think it is quite clear that this is what the franchise needs to do.

Gozer · 02-05-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

BC said in an interview today that the offers coming in on Bosh have been spectacular.

I read that to say "The Raptor's professional liar said the Raptors could get a lot for a trade we have no interest in." He would say that if it wasn't true, so that does nothing to convince me either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I don't have any doubt teams will line up to grab him and will offer up a whole collection of youngsters, solids and picks to get him.

Who, though? What roster is just exploding with youngsters, solids, and high picks?

Al Jefferson + Brewer + Foye - Yes
Durant + a dead body - Yes
Boozer + Harpring + Almond - No

I'm just tossing out anything that crosses my mind.

Da_Chief · 02-06-2009, 12:28 AM

Theres few teams with good young stars but why would the trade 2-3 of their top assets for one over-rated bum when they aren't even close yet. It would make more sense for a team who thinks they're one player away from contending.

Miami can start with Beasley.
Milwaukee with Bogut
Portland with Aldridge
Dallas with Howard

I dunno, but his value is the highest, if you can get 2 starters plus, plus have the lottery pick, Bragnani's improvement..they could be back in the race by next season, right now they're on verge of losing their so-called franchise player and getting nothing for him.

Trojan97 · 02-06-2009, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

I read that to say "The Raptor's professional liar said the Raptors could get a lot for a trade we have no interest in." He would say that if it wasn't true, so that does nothing to convince me either way.

Who, though? What roster is just exploding with youngsters, solids, and high picks?

Al Jefferson + Brewer + Foye - Yes
Durant + a dead body - Yes
Boozer + Harpring + Almond - No

I'm just tossing out anything that crosses my mind.

Raps would be lucky to get Al Jefferson straight up let alone Brewer and Foye on top. Jefferson is a stud.

JohnnyFlame · 02-06-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

I read that to say "The Raptor's professional liar said the Raptors could get a lot for a trade we have no interest in." He would say that if it wasn't true, so that does nothing to convince me either way.

Who, though? What roster is just exploding with youngsters, solids, and high picks?

Al Jefferson + Brewer + Foye - Yes
Durant + a dead body - Yes
Boozer + Harpring + Almond - No

I'm just tossing out anything that crosses my mind.

I would like them to look to a deal with Atlanta. Try to land Horford and Josh Smith. Heck then even go after Marvin Williams in the offseason.

JohnnyFlame · 02-06-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

I read that to say "The Raptor's professional liar said the Raptors could get a lot for a trade we have no interest in." He would say that if it wasn't true, so that does nothing to convince me either way.

Who, though? What roster is just exploding with youngsters, solids, and high picks?

Al Jefferson + Brewer + Foye - Yes
Durant + a dead body - Yes
Boozer + Harpring + Almond - No

I'm just tossing out anything that crosses my mind.

Yes BC is a pro GM in the Sutter mode. He could be tying to bump the number of offers or up the ante. But really the important message was that Bosh is for sale at the right offer.

bluejays · 02-06-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Yes BC is a pro GM in the Sutter mode. He could be tying to bump the number of offers or up the ante. But really the important message was that Bosh is for sale at the right offer.

Yeah, I got that out of his quote also. It was almost like telling the media that he's not openly dealing him, but he's listening to offers for him. Personally, I disagree with a lot of ya'll trade proposals (JR Smith? Horford? Williams? WTH?). I don't tend to overvalue my favorite team's talent, but I do think Bosh has huge value in the league. At the end of the day, he's a league top 10 player IMO, and without a doubt if a team (especially in the West), is close to a playoff spot, the guy could fetch a huge return. I'd absolutely bet Portland would give up Oden and Fernandez for the guy, in addition to a 1st. I'd like to see Durant but Oklahoma isn't close to making the playoff's and it probably wouldn't be worth their time. Or how about Utah for Williams and Brewer (then moving Calderon to SG)? Just ideas to throw out there, but I do think he has a very high trade value.

One other thing. While I was absolutely annoyed that Colangelo seemed to lead the Euro parade and constantly get too many of these Euro bench players, people tend to forget this guy does have an itchy finger when it comes to poor performance, as he showed in Phoenix. I kinda think now is useless to try and pull off an O'Neal deal as squeeking into the 8th spot is useless for this season (top tier teams will dominate them). I do think O'Neal's expiring contract will be crazy valuable during the offseason, and imagine if they could deal both Bosh and O'Neal in separate deals in the offseason? Those two deals could set the franchise up for the next 5 years if done right.

Gozer · 02-06-2009, 02:11 PM

About Jermaine for Shaq?

bluejays · 02-06-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

About Jermaine for Shaq?

And then what?

Gozer · 02-06-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

And then what?

malcolmk14 · 02-06-2009, 02:17 PM

Chris Bosh is a soft player who occasionally shows flashes of a top-10 player on the offensive side of the ball. I agree he has enormous potential but to put him in the top 10 now is IMO ridiculous. Check back in five years or so and there's a slight possibility he's turned into Kevin Garnett without the passing skill, but I wouldn't bank on that this early in his career. I really think Bosh lacks the intensity and killer instinct that sets apart "top-10" players from "good" players. The Oden/Fernandez idea probably isn't far off his trade value. But Kevin Durant? Deron Williams AND Ronnie Brewer? Are you on crack?

Durant is a future 30 PPG player who (at 20 years old) is already significantly better than Bosh. The guy's ceiling is probably close to Tracy McGrady in his prime with better rebounding and better three-point shooting (he shoots over 42% this season).

Williams is an indespensable 20/10 guy who shot 50/40/80 last year in an injury free season, and the Raptors already have their PG in Calderon (no way he is moving to SG). This discussion is moot though, because there's no way Utah would undervalue Deron Williams enough to even consider making this trade. Also, trading Deron Williams does not put the Jazz over the top in the competitive western conference. It hinders them greatly, in fact.

malcolmk14 · 02-06-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

About Jermaine for Shaq?

And then they'll trade Anthony Parker for LeBron James, Jose Calderon for Chris Paul, and Jason Kapono for Dwyane Wade.

Come on, why would Phoenix even consider this?

Nevermind, I guess I see the sarcasm now... Damn not having the green text, I can't pick up on EVERYTHING.

Gozer · 02-06-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

And then they'll trade Anthony Parker for LeBron James, Jose Calderon for Chris Paul, and Jason Kapono for Dwyane Wade.

Those salaries don't match up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Come on, why would Phoenix even consider this?

Nevermind, I guess I see the sarcasm now... Damn not having the green text, I can't pick up on EVERYTHING.

I haven't ordered my Shaq jersey but I'm not being silly (at least not intentionally). PHX might covet Kapono or Moon in that system, Jermaine would work better with Amare than he does Bosh, and it would be a defensive upgrade. Plu the move has less Devin-for-Kidd-esque franchise crushing trade potential then trading Amare.

Shaq is well past his prime, misses a lot of games injured, has a gigantic salary, and PHX sounds like they're giving up on this roster. He's not exactly Lebron or Paul when it comes to value.

JohnnyFlame · 02-06-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

Yeah, I got that out of his quote also. It was almost like telling the media that he's not openly dealing him, but he's listening to offers for him. Personally, I disagree with a lot of ya'll trade proposals (JR Smith? Horford? Williams? WTH?). I don't tend to overvalue my favorite team's talent, but I do think Bosh has huge value in the league. At the end of the day, he's a league top 10 player IMO, and without a doubt if a team (especially in the West), is close to a playoff spot, the guy could fetch a huge return. I'd absolutely bet Portland would give up Oden and Fernandez for the guy, in addition to a 1st. I'd like to see Durant but Oklahoma isn't close to making the playoff's and it probably wouldn't be worth their time. Or how about Utah for Williams and Brewer (then moving Calderon to SG)? Just ideas to throw out there, but I do think he has a very high trade value.

One other thing. While I was absolutely annoyed that Colangelo seemed to lead the Euro parade and constantly get too many of these Euro bench players, people tend to forget this guy does have an itchy finger when it comes to poor performance, as he showed in Phoenix. I kinda think now is useless to try and pull off an O'Neal deal as squeeking into the 8th spot is useless for this season (top tier teams will dominate them). I do think O'Neal's expiring contract will be crazy valuable during the offseason, and imagine if they could deal both Bosh and O'Neal in separate deals in the offseason? Those two deals could set the franchise up for the next 5 years if done right.

Lot's of possibilities no doubt. Oden would be a nice fit. JO could train him for a year before BC moves him as an expiring. He would really compliment Bargs with them then having an inside/outside combo instead of two of them crowding the paint. Fernandez is good for some points and would fit in nicely with Calderon. Plus they might be willing to do that deal as it very much puts them up into contender status.

Machiavelli · 02-06-2009, 08:16 PM

Your Toronto Raptors...finding new ways to lose since 2008.

Prototype · 02-10-2009, 03:17 PM

Bosh out for the All Star Game. The good news, we never have to hear "Mo Williams should be on the All Star team" this season.

http://tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=266559&l...=topStory_main

octothorp · 02-11-2009, 07:29 PM

Woot! Win over San Antonio with Bosh, Calderon, and for most of the game Graham out of the lineup. Huge game for Roko, with a late game 3 and then the winning basket over Tony Parker, 22 points total. Still a crappy season, but tonight was a good night to be rooting for this team.

Machiavelli · 02-11-2009, 08:06 PM

I didn't catch what happened to Graham....?

That was a pretty good game. Got a little nervous when J.O. missed one of his free throws and San Antonio got possession for a possible game-winning 3-pointer with about 7 seconds left. I was holding my breath waiting for Roger Mason to jack one up.