8 + 6= Insanity

[Ice]

I was shocked when the news interviewed her mother and she said they implanted 8 embryos. I can't believe a doctor would do that. All the fertility doctors they interviewed after that said that they wouldn't implant more than three because the risks to the baby and the mother were too high. What was her doctor thinking? This procedure has obviously been successful in the past. It seems colossally irresponsible to put that many embryos in one uterus.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Ice

I was shocked when the news interviewed her mother and she said they implanted 8 embryos. I can't believe a doctor would do that. All the fertility doctors they interviewed after that said that they wouldn't implant more than three because the risks to the baby and the mother were too high. What was her doctor thinking? This procedure has obviously been successful in the past. It seems colossally irresponsible to put that many embryos in one uterus.

No kidding. All because she "didn't want to waste them". How about going one at a time and have a healthy pregnancy so you don't "waste" a baby?

[tete]

Originally Posted by Ice

I was shocked when the news interviewed her mother and she said they implanted 8 embryos. I can't believe a doctor would do that. All the fertility doctors they interviewed after that said that they wouldn't implant more than three because the risks to the baby and the mother were too high. What was her doctor thinking? This procedure has obviously been successful in the past. It seems colossally irresponsible to put that many embryos in one uterus.

Agreed. This is a colossal failure in medical ethics. One of my dear friends, who underwent IVF and is expecting twins (2 embryos were implanted) said that the docs really only want you to have one because the risks get so much higher when you have multiples. But they'll always err and implant 2 because often 1 won't make it. But 8? So wrong.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by getbak

More details have come out about the mother: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...orld/octuplets

She's 33, unmarried and has had all of her children via in vitro fertilization. Her eggs were all extracted and fertilized by the same man's sperm many years ago, and the embryos were frozen. Apparently, she didn't want these final 8 to go to waste, so she had them implanted.

Her mother says that she's been obsessed with having children since she was a young girl, but that she had no desire to get married.

Somehow, she has found the time to get a degree in child and adolescent development and is working on a Masters in counseling.

Putting aside the fact that this is a terrible idea, wouldnt this be outrageously expensive?

[tete]

Locke - Initial IVF treatments run about $10 000 here in Calgary - $5K for the drugs, $5 K for the egg retrieval, fertilization and transfer. Subsequent transfers are cheaper because they don't have to do the retrieval and fertilization - or the super drugs. But you'd still be looking at a couple grand a transfer.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by tete

This is a colossal failure in medical ethics.

So very, very true. Seriously, WDF? Do these doctors get paid by the embryo? Forget about the crazy cat lady that wants to have a litter, what kind of looney doctor would implant 8 embryos...into a chick that already has 6 kids? Colossal failure is dead on. The chick should have been sent for a psychiatric evaluation instead.

[dobbles]

you know what? i am gonna come at this from a different angle. (shouldn't be a big surprise eh?)

things like this are irresponsible as a human being. regardless of what we want to think about beign individualistic and free, this world has a carrying capacity. given our current standards of food production, there is a theoretical number of people this planet can support. if we continue to indiscriminately grow our population with people having this many children, we will force future generations to have to ration their output of kids similar to china. i am not saying people shouldn't have children, but you have to be a responsible human being. if you already have 6 kids you should really think hard about trying to have 8 more at once...

i just think this is a terrible situation.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by tete

Locke - Initial IVF treatments run about $10 000 here in Calgary - $5K for the drugs, $5 K for the egg retrieval, fertilization and transfer. Subsequent transfers are cheaper because they don't have to do the retrieval and fertilization - or the super drugs. But you'd still be looking at a couple grand a transfer.

Right, but considering shes currently a student working on a Masters, and in two articles theres been a lot of mention of 'recovery' time, obviously, but no mention of a job, one would come to the conclusion that she probably cant afford all this.

And is this in vitro only for the previous batch, or does it include the new six as well?

If its all IVF, you be looking at what? $10K for the first...how many? and then $2K/kid from there?

Jesus man, now thats insane! Forget 14 kids being insane, 14 IVFs is the ludicrous part.

It'd be cheaper (and probably more fun) for her to just go to a bar and get drunk and knocked up.

[tete]

Originally Posted by Locke

Right, but considering shes currently a student working on a Masters, and in two articles theres been a lot of mention of 'recovery' time, obviously, but no mention of a job, one would come to the conclusion that she probably cant afford all this.

And is this in vitro only for the previous batch, or does it include the new six as well?

If its all IVF, you be looking at what? $10K for the first...how many? and then $2K/kid from there?

Jesus man, now thats insane! Forget 14 kids being insane, 14 IVFs is the ludicrous part.

It'd be cheaper (and probably more fun) for her to just go to a bar and get drunk and knocked up.

It was probably 7 IVF's (though are there multiples in the earlier kids? I haven't seen much about the first 6) - I don't think it costs anymore to implant 1 embryo or 8, but you're right - if you're not working, I'm not sure how you could afford this. I read in one article that she was paid to do this - which has me scratching my head - usually if you're a surrogate, you're paid, but not if you keep the kids yourself.

I also read that her fallopian tubes were blocked, hence IVF. So all the drunk bar sex won't give you a kid if you're basically infertile. But I agree, it'd be more fun that an appointment with Mr. Turkey Baster.

Hah, I know way too much about the logistics of IVF/IUI/Fertility drugs.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by dobbles

you know what? i am gonna come at this from a different angle. (shouldn't be a big surprise eh?)

things like this are irresponsible as a human being. regardless of what we want to think about beign individualistic and free, this world has a carrying capacity. given our current standards of food production, there is a theoretical number of people this planet can support. if we continue to indiscriminately grow our population with people having this many children, we will force future generations to have to ration their output of kids similar to china. i am not saying people shouldn't have children, but you have to be a responsible human being. if you already have 6 kids you should really think hard about trying to have 8 more at once...

i just think this is a terrible situation.

Yes, but...

Most Western societies are either below or barely over replacement fertility rates and having more kids in developed countries does not really put any more of a strain on resources because we're barely replacing ourselves as it is. For instance, in the table linked below, Canada's Total Fertility Rate is 1.50, meaning that on average Canadian women have 1.5 children throughout their childbearing years. It might sound okay until your remember that women produce all of our offspring but only represent 50% of the population. Therefore in order to replace ourselve domestically, our fertility rate would have to be 2.0. The U.S. is 2.05, so they are managing to replace themselves, but only just. (You also have to remember that a certain percentage of live births will never reach child bearing age and for all intents and purposes should be subtractded from the replacement numbers.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...fertility_rate

Immigration allows a redistribution of some of the differential fertility rates, but is limited in that regard by logistics. As such the populations of Western countries could decline unless people have a couple more kids.

I'm not arguing that this is responsible, I agree that it isn't, but from a societal populations standpoint I don't think the argument holds up unless this becomes truly widespread.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Rathji

There is nothing wrong with these people. Since when was wanting a family and children a terrible thing???? Would I want 14 kids .... no but just because these people did doesn't make them terrible people. Or flawed people. And those "BRILLIANT GENES" you speak of may one day do great things. You can't assume they will want to have a big family because they were born into on. You can't condemn a person because their parents had a big family. I personally wouldn't condemn someone for not terminating a pregnancy because it was 8 babies instead of one. This Mom wanted another child and was blessed with more than that. As long as these children are loved and cared for then there is no reason for you or anyone else to ask what is wrong with them! Closed minded people are really the problem with this world, not people who want and have a family.

There is something wrong with this person. She's already got 6 kids, one of which is a high maintenance autistic, no husband, no home of her own, and she's a student. Do you think this is appropriate to then want 8 more kids, all born simultaneously with the complications of prematurity? And raising 14 kids who are staggered in age, is very different than 8 synchronously moving through all the phases of development.

This is not about closed minded people, this is about a complete lack of judgement and gross irresponsibility. Do you honestly think she is going to be able to meet the needs of all her children? Children are a privilege, not a right.

Seeing as how she is clearly not compos mentus, I blame the ######ed doctors who made this circus a possibilty. Someone sold out huge, and I hope the medical licensing commitee reviews this.

[Ice]

Her new publicist was just on the news saying she will give her first interview for 2 million dollars. I suppose that's how she plans to support her kids. I wonder if anyone would pay that much money for a story that has pretty much been told.

[missdpuck]

Is it true that the publicist has approached Oprah as first choice?

[Ice]

He wasn't specific. Her former publicist (from what, five days ago?) says there were offers for her to do her own talkshow on parenting, infertitily, etc.

On another show (more tabloid like) her mother was asked something about when the babies come home and her answer was "I won't be here." But with tabloid editting, that quote could be broadcast out of context.

[Locke]

Apparently the interview that the world has been waiting for has happened:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...if_octuplets_5

"Parting the veil of secrecy" seems to be a tad melodramatic.

[burn_this_city]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/06/oct...mom/index.html

All Ive ever wanted to do is have kids.
She's like a baby making machine.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/06/oct...mom/index.html

All Ive ever wanted to do is have kids.
She's like a baby making machine.

Except for that whole 'having to take care of them' thing, thats typically a drag.

[burn_this_city]

The easiest solution to her quandry would have been to join Mormonism.

[Ford Prefect]

8+6=14.

14x3=42

That's it ... the answer is 42!!!!!!!

Uh, what was the question?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

8+6=14.

14x3=42

That's it ... the answer is 42!!!!!!!

Uh, what was the question?

Thanks for the fish