There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by photon

I don't think all atheists hate that religions advertise their ideas.. most would probably hate being woken up by a knock on the door, or those really negative ads that call atheists unamerican or whatever.

No, that's not what I meant at all. Just that atheists often pick out the worst of the theists, the ones who push their ideas, like the billboard idea, and use it in many of their arguments. So to do it back could make them hypocritical. Was just my original feel.

And like I said, I came to see it as a 'we're out there' campaign more than an attack. It's really not that offensive. The fact that some people believe it is, shows the double standard.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by bcb

'There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

Sounds like it written by a lawyer who didn't want to get sued.

The *ARE* being sued by several churches and their lawyer says that the "probably" will easily make their case for them. However, they welcome the suit as it will be entertaining to see the churches try to prove the existence of God in court.

I didn't realize they were in Calgary now:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...tml?id=1224380
I thought this was just a UK phenomenon.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Daradon

No, that's not what I meant at all. Just that atheists often pick out the worst of the theists, the ones who push their ideas, like the billboard idea, and use it in many of their arguments. So to do it back could make them hypocritical. Was just my original feel.

And like I said, I came to see it as a 'we're out there' campaign more than an attack. It's really not that offensive. The fact that some people believe it is, shows the double standard.

Yeah, I certainly don't find it offensive.

I'm just not sure that many folks other than 'active' atheists will get it, that's all.

Also, the motivation seems born more of "we can do this too" than of sharing an idea someone believes to be good or right. That said, I'm fully aware religious ads don't do the latter either in most cases.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The *ARE* being sued by several churches and their lawyer says that the "probably" will easily make their case for them. However, they welcome the suit as it will be entertaining to see the churches try to prove the existence of God in court.

I didn't realize they were in Calgary now:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...tml?id=1224380
I thought this was just a UK phenomenon.

Toronto as well....the uproar is just starting.

[Antithesis]

I have no problem with these advertisements - if you allow churchy ads, you need to allow these. That being said, I do find this new spread-the-word atheism kind of interesting given that hate-on many atheists have towards that aspect of religions.

Heard a partial response to this from Bishop Henry on the news today that I got a bit of a chuckle out of, asking if the ad campaign would begin on April 1. I figure no matter which side you're on, that's a funny little jab.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Daradon

No, that's not what I meant at all. Just that atheists often pick out the worst of the theists, the ones who push their ideas, like the billboard idea, and use it in many of their arguments. So to do it back could make them hypocritical. Was just my original feel.

I can see that, and in a way I'd agree, though since there's no atheistic dogma or set of values it's more difficult to say atheists in general are being hypocritical, though individual ones probably are.

[troutman]

There were some mind-numbing letters to the Herald today on this topic. Not up on the web-site yet.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/letters/index.html

[photon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The *ARE* being sued by several churches and their lawyer says that the "probably" will easily make their case for them. However, they welcome the suit as it will be entertaining to see the churches try to prove the existence of God in court.

I wonder if maybe that's part of the point of the campaign too... again not so much the specific message, but to draw out this kind of criticism into the public eye so people can see it and make their own judgments about how those people are reacting.

"Freedom of speech and religion as long as it's my religion and the speech says what I want."

There was a bus driver who refused to drive a bus with the ad on it.. I mean come on, how shallow and petty does that demonstrate that person to be? People gave their lives and defended the right for people to express opinions that they didn't agree with, while this guy won't even drive a bus.

[mykalberta]

Probably?

Classic atheist, wont take one side or the other.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by troutman

There were some mind-numbing letters to the Herald today on this topic. Not up on the web-site yet.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/letters/index.html

Bishop Henry's response...

Calgary Catholic Bishop Fred Henry said the ideal date to launch such a campaign would be April Fool's Day.
"I don't know what the norms Calgary Transit uses to accept advertising, but if the benchmark is that it should be non-offensive, I'm offended," said Henry.
"This is insulting to us. The interfaith dialogue that goes on in this city is characterized by deep respect for all the individual players."
Henry characterized the ad's message as aggressive, inward-looking, self-indulgent and narcissistic.
ads that say, "there's probably no god. now stop worrying and enjoy your life," could soon be on city buses.

I guess this is one good reason why we need the advertising.

Religion is accustomed to getting a free ride - automatic tax breaks, unearned 'respect' and the right not to be 'offended', the right to brainwash children," Professor Dawkins said.

"Even on the buses, nobody thinks twice when they see a religious slogan plastered across the side. This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think – and thinking is anathema to religion."

Many good comments on that article...

What's the big deal? If God exists, he still exists regardless of whether a group of people feel he doesn't and post ads on buses claiming that he doesn't. If a person's faith is affected by these ads, then it was pretty weak faith to begin with.

These ads are no more offensive than the barrage of church signs declaring God as the only way on every other corner. If you're that greatly offended, finance and launch an counter bus-sign initiative.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Bishop Henry's response...

Calgary Catholic Bishop Fred Henry said the ideal date to launch such a campaign would be April Fool's Day.
"I don't know what the norms Calgary Transit uses to accept advertising, but if the benchmark is that it should be non-offensive, I'm offended," said Henry.
"This is insulting to us. The interfaith dialogue that goes on in this city is characterized by deep respect for all the individual players."
Henry characterized the ad's message as aggressive, inward-looking, self-indulgent and narcissistic.
ads that say, "there's probably no god. now stop worrying and enjoy your life," could soon be on city buses.

I guess this is one good reason why we need the advertising.

Religion is accustomed to getting a free ride - automatic tax breaks, unearned 'respect' and the right not to be 'offended', the right to brainwash children," Professor Dawkins said.

"Even on the buses, nobody thinks twice when they see a religious slogan plastered across the side. This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think – and thinking is anathema to religion."

The letters published Jan 30th are even more stunning.

Ex.

"I never met an athiest with a sense of joie de vivre. Most of them seem to be miserable blighters. Atheism is directly responsible for the increase in immoral laws . . . a life without the Ten Commandments or a spiritual sense of purpose is a living hell" - Josh Andover, Toronto

[Would the Herald publish a letter like this if it was directed at women, or any other group of people?]

"The use of the word "probably" tells me this is just another unproven theory, like evolution". - Hans G. Kusche, Calgary

[photon]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Probably?

Classic atheist, wont take one side or the other.

Atheism is about belief. "Probably" is about knowledge. Two different things.

[photon]

Even from the letters already there:

Atheism is directly responsible for the increase in immoral laws (abortion), sexual permissiveness, drug abuse, crime and suicide. When people are given a nihilistic message that there is no meaning to life, that we are just reasonably clever animals who evolved quite by chance, they are easily driven down the road to despair.

Yeah, there's no need for raising awareness about atheism at all.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by photon

There was a bus driver who refused to drive a bus with the ad on it.. I mean come on, how shallow and petty does that demonstrate that person to be? People gave their lives and defended the right for people to express opinions that they didn't agree with, while this guy won't even drive a bus.

Cheese, would you drive a bus with a religious sign on it?

[photon]

Personally I would never drive a bus with a Telus ad on it.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The *ARE* being sued by several churches and their lawyer says that the "probably" will easily make their case for them. However, they welcome the suit as it will be entertaining to see the churches try to prove the existence of God in court.

I didn't realize they were in Calgary now:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...tml?id=1224380
I thought this was just a UK phenomenon.

I love it how people like Bishop Henry can preach hate against Gays, abortion etc stating free speech but once you criticize their religion they want to sue. I remember going to work every day in Cold Lake when I was in University reading billboards how abortion was murder. I am sure these folks had no issue with these billboards.

Isn't the Bible written by illiterate people translated over many centuries scientific proof? I don't see how these churches have a case. I was cold about these billboards at first but the more I read into this, the more I welcome them.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Bishop Henry's response...

Calgary Catholic Bishop Fred Henry said the ideal date to launch such a campaign would be April Fool's Day.
"I don't know what the norms Calgary Transit uses to accept advertising, but if the benchmark is that it should be non-offensive, I'm offended," said Henry.
"This is insulting to us. The interfaith dialogue that goes on in this city is characterized by deep respect for all the individual players."
Henry characterized the ad's message as aggressive, inward-looking, self-indulgent and narcissistic.
ads that say, "there's probably no god. now stop worrying and enjoy your life," could soon be on city buses.

I guess this is one good reason why we need the advertising.

Religion is accustomed to getting a free ride - automatic tax breaks, unearned 'respect' and the right not to be 'offended', the right to brainwash children," Professor Dawkins said.

"Even on the buses, nobody thinks twice when they see a religious slogan plastered across the side. This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think – and thinking is anathema to religion."Many good comments on that article...

What's the big deal? If God exists, he still exists regardless of whether a group of people feel he doesn't and post ads on buses claiming that he doesn't. If a person's faith is affected by these ads, then it was pretty weak faith to begin with.

These ads are no more offensive than the barrage of church signs declaring God as the only way on every other corner. If you're that greatly offended, finance and launch an counter bus-sign initiative.

See this is the kind of irony that really makes me despise this clown. I can't say I've ever heard fred henry open his mouth without showing an incredible lack of respect to a particular group of people. I guess it's ok for him to run around and be intolerant but as soon as somebody attacks him it's suddenly cause for crying.

I'm not even in favour of this ad campaign as it uses the same tactics that many religious groups use.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Cheese, would you drive a bus with a religious sign on it?

Absolutely. What an absolutely silly question IMHO.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I don't think many atheists would state as a fact that there isn't a God.

I am 100% confident that there is no god. The only way I'll change my mind is if I see some scientific evidence. I don't consider myself atheist.

I am also 100% confident that there is no Santa Claus, Ogopogo, Lockness Monster, Bigfoot, Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny. The only way I'll change my mind is if I see some scientific evidence.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Dion

I grew up in a home where my mother took us 3 kids to Sunday school. My mothers mother was very religious and we kids all got Bibles at an early age. Us kids rebeled because we didn't want to go and she stopped taking us. Yet you make these blanket statements that children have no choice. Sorry to burst your bubble but i did have a choice and my parents respected that.

Most of the Atheists I know or have met have religious backgrounds as well. Of course some don't get indoctrinated even if brought up religious, obviously then there would be very few atheists if any.

My statement is that children are in no stage of development to tackle and take on a worldview that will forever affect their adult life. A child can much less differ ghosts, gods, fairies, and their various imaginings.

While you complained and didn't have to go to church anymore, most of my religious friends growing up had to go every sunday no matter what they thought of it.

I went back in my late teens and not because my mind was vulnerable and nor was i indoctrinated like some would want others here to believe. I chose to go back of my own free will and stayed until my mid 30's where i chose again to leave. When i left no one tried to coherce me stay or make threats that i'd burn in Hell. I still believe in a religious God but don't feel one has to attend a church to practice thier faith.

But you went back to your specific religion, Christianity I would assume. You didn't become a muslim, or a hindu. Simply because I would assume you weren't exposed to that or had very much influence other than the specific belief you were taught to believe as a child.

Just because you weren't threatened or pushed to stay in the church, doesn't mean a lot don't feel that pressure. Its not that bad here in Canada, but it happens and it certainly happens in the US, and most of the religious nations of the world. People are ex-communicated from their families (jehova's/mormons/christian sects), even mainstream moderates suffer a lot of family strife when proclaiming Atheism or even converting to another religion (which happens a lot.)

Then there's the statment you make where you say if they don't get them young they'll lose them to the darkside. Again i hate to burst your bubble but i saw people become members in a church as an adult. Many like me because they had an open mind and wanted to learn something new. Some stayed and yes some left.

So you disagree that children are incapable of understanding the complexity and consequence of religion being taught to them by parents who are repeating the cycle they went through as children?

I mean I admire children's imagination, but their reasoning, logic and perspective really doesn't develop until their early to late teens. Especially when it comes to religion.

By the way, the darkside comment was a joke.