Fighting in Gaza Strip

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Globe and Mail had a great article today on that supposed UN school that was shelled by Isreal.

I guess it turns out that nothing actually landed within the school grounds, while people in the school complex were injured, it happened because of shratenal. A total of 3 mortars landed in the street adjacent to the school. That is it - I suggest anyone who takes news reports from that area of the world seriously, pick up your own copy to read. Very telling stuff. Not even the UN can be trusted (they put out a press release indicating they were hit immediately after the event).

Its no wonder the BBC wont air that call for aid money, its likely they cannot trust the numbers being reported.

Link to article online - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090129.wgazaschool29/BNStory/specialComment/

I don't think your report of the article paints an accurate picture of events either.

You say 3 mortars landed adjancent to the school and 'That is it'. Well 43 civilians were still killed. If you want to argue whether the fact they were outside (adjacent to) the school compound or inside the school compound makes a huge difference, I'll leave that to you.

I will note that the G&M wasn't as quick as you were to suggest the newly reported events were 'no big deal':

While the killing of 43 civilians on the street may itself be grounds for investigation, it falls short of the act of shooting into a schoolyard crowded with refuge-seekers.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by ikaris

So what exactly is there to notice? Rather than the mortars landing directly on the school, they landed beside the school killing 43 civilians.

I guess everything is OK now because the civilians were outside the school.

Point is that the media was saying for the longest time that Israel had 'bombed' a school. Or shot into a school.

As in directly attacked the school. That wasn't true.

I know there were civilian casualties. And I feel just as bad about it as you do.

[mykalberta]

The UN sent out a press release on January 7 (day after event) saying the school was hit by the Isreali mortars. The GnM article would seem to state otherwise.

It was reported on January 7 by the Globe and Mail and others that the UN school was hit by mortars and verified by the UN itself.

This followup report by the Globe and Mail makes that claim by the UN to be a lie. If that report by the UN is a lie, how can you believe that 43 civilians were killed instead. How do we not know it was 40 Hamas soldiers and 3 civilians or 5 cats and 1 hamster. We dont, that is the point. I posted that to thank the Globe and Mail for doing a followup story. Not many papers would what basically amounts to a front page retraction. I am sure CBC News World reported it the same way the GnM did, but you dont see them giving any sort of meaningful retraction.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Its no wonder the BBC wont air that call for aid money, its likely they cannot trust the numbers being reported.

Nothing to do with that at all. That's total misrepresentation.

"Director general Mark Thompson has said by airing the appeal the BBC would risk reducing public confidence in its impartial coverage of the conflict."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7848673.stm

Having said that, IMO it's a bit of a strange stance to take considering they've released appeals for Sudan, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Somalia ... in the past.

[mykalberta]

In case anyone doubts what was reported at the time of the school or the after math here are some more links

"Isreal targed the school with GPS guided mortars" I guess they were using iPhone GPS as they seemed to have "missed" their target http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecc..._b_160441.html

"Isreal fired mortar shells at UN run school" Wow the IDF force really do suck, they cant even hit a school - wow, no wonder they lose. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010603504.html

"People where taking shelter in the streets" Yah, I always take shelter in the street when the crap hits the fan http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...srael-death-un

"Doctors said the school was targeted" I guess doctars arent as trustowrthy in Gaza as else where http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814054.stm

"Fair and Balanced" well maybe not, Carol Rove would be dissapointed by this http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,476664,00.html

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

This followup report by the Globe and Mail makes that claim by the UN to be a lie. If that report by the UN is a lie, how can you believe that 43 civilians were killed instead. How do we not know it was 40 Hamas soldiers and 3 civilians or 5 cats and 1 hamster. We dont, that is the point. I posted that to thank the Globe and Mail for doing a followup story. Not many papers would what basically amounts to a front page retraction. I am sure CBC News World reported it the same way the GnM did, but you dont see them giving any sort of meaningful retraction.

Well the Globe still acknowledged 43 civilians died but they're probably lying too!!! Certainly you know better about truth and lies than the investigator on the ground over there.

You've convinced me though. I can't trust any claims from Gaza. Well I bet no Palestinian civilians have been killed at all!

[BavarianHorde]

A brief history of Israel, well, the recent history.
http://fun.mivzakon.co.il/flash/video/2673/2673.html

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

"People where taking shelter in the streets" Yah, I always take shelter in the street when the crap hits the fan http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...srael-death-un

I'm not sure what your point is linking to a piece where they got the facts straight. Nice way to make the media look biased.

The civilian death toll in Gaza increased dramatically today, with reports of more than 40 Palestinians killed after missiles exploded outside a UN school

John Ging, director of operations in Gaza for UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, said that three artillery shells landed at the perimeter of the school where 350 people were taking shelter.

I guess the Liberal media isn't the only one with a bias - right MYK?

[Nage Waza]

Of course they claim IDF bombed a school, even if they miss the school, and of course they don't mention some idiot launching rockets from there. They do this because of the Battle of Jenin, once they claim a massacre, even though it did not happen, the Jews become guilty. Works time and time again. Look at this thread, there are those that simply want to blame Israel. No matter that one side wraps their daughters in bombs or hides behind children, the Jews are simply guilty.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Of course they claim IDF bombed a school, even if they miss the school, and of course they don't mention some idiot launching rockets from there. They do this because of the Battle of Jenin, once they claim a massacre, even though it did not happen, the Jews become guilty. Works time and time again. Look at this thread, there are those that simply want to blame Israel. No matter that one side wraps their daughters in bombs or hides behind children, the Jews are simply guilty.

Yep.

Been through this SO many times before. Its the same response everytime.

[HOZ]

What bothers me is this notion here that Zionism is a form of fascism. This has to be one of the nastiest ideas. This poerversion also is shown in the belief by some that the violence and terror perpetrated by the Palestinians is ok. After all only a people scraping the very depths of despair from a (non-existant) occupation would shoot missiles (randomly) at their enemy and then hide behind their children.

By this twisted logic, the more insanely the Palestinians act, the more culpable Israel must be. The alternative possibility—that Hamas is running an ultra-criminal death cult—is never seriously considered.

These people NEVER EVER look at this way. If Hamas put down their weapons...what would happen? Israel would wipe them out....well they could do that anyways and DON'T

BUT!

What would happen if the Israelis drop all their weapons? Certainly not peace. Well, not until after every single Jew is killed, I guess. You can see by the way they handled Fatah in Gaza that Jews would be tumbling off of buildings by the 10's of thousands.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Of course they claim IDF bombed a school, even if they miss the school, and of course they don't mention some idiot launching rockets from there.

If the idiot rocket-launcher isn't mentioned, how do you know he exists? If the biased left-wing/anti-Israel media ignores the awful things the terrorists do, how come I've heard of the terrible things they do?

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Look at this thread, there are those that simply want to blame Israel. No matter that one side wraps their daughters in bombs or hides behind children, the Jews are simply guilty.

There is a big difference between "blaming Israel" and "the Jews are guilty".

Me, I don't like how either side is acting in this long-drawn out disaster. I don't give a flying eff at a rolling donut about the religion of either side.

The old "you disagree with disagree with the government of Israel? You are an anti-Semite" dodge is plain old dumb.

[Azure]

To me, its pretty clear cut. Israel has many times now shown that they would be willing to work out a peace deal, and end the violence. They broker a cease-fire, and Hamas is the one who breaks it.

I don't KNOW what people expect Israel to do, if Hamas is going to sit in the Gaza Strip and fire rockets into Israel all day long at will.

I know the problem is much more complicated than that, but as long as Hamas is allowed to exist, Israel will constantly have to invade Gaza and strike back.

The media has a habit of twisting stories whether they're left/right wing. Just the nature of the beast.

Telling everyone that Israel launched 3 mortars into an area outside a school where refugees were hiding isn't as fun as telling everyone that Israel bombed a school. The latter sells, the former doesn't.

[Bagor]

Wouldn't be having this converstion if the international media had been let in.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Wouldn't be having this converstion if the international media had been let in.

Probably not, and I also think they should have been let in.

Doesn't mean you would get a 100% accurate portrayal of events though.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Wouldn't be having this converstion if the international media had been let in.

I seriously doubt this. The media was allowed into Jenin and the reports were no more accurate. In fact, they were downright lies.

IMO the media is more likely to report an unsubstantiated claim if it comes from an imbeded journalist.

They just don't seem very likely to check that journalists source.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

I seriously doubt this. The media was allowed into Jenin and the reports were no more accurate. In fact, they were downright lies.

Were they though?

During the 2002 invasion of the West Bank town of Jenin, media barred from the area relied on Palestinian accounts reporting that some 500 people had been massacred. When U.N. officials were later granted access to the site, it was revealed the number of dead was closer to 50.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...nQZ3wD95NS7BO0

That's the risk they took. If stories can't be reported first hand, then fabrications, exaggerations and Chinese whispers occur.

Personally I think it's clear that the mainstream media will report more accurately when they have first hand access to the happenings.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

If the idiot rocket-launcher isn't mentioned, how do you know he exists? If the biased left-wing/anti-Israel media ignores the awful things the terrorists do, how come I've heard of the terrible things they do?



There is a big difference between "blaming Israel" and "the Jews are guilty".

Me, I don't like how either side is acting in this long-drawn out disaster. I don't give a flying eff at a rolling donut about the religion of either side.

The old "you disagree with disagree with the government of Israel? You are an anti-Semite" dodge is plain old dumb.

Not as big as you might think.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Wouldn't be having this converstion if the international media had been let in.

If the media were in Gaza as opposed to being safely clustered on the Israeli side of the border, do you really think their reporting would be more unbiased?

Seems to me that the Palestinian sources are taken for truth, and the Israeli's are never asked. The IDF has spokespeople who would be happy to give figures to the Western media.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by bcb

Not as big as you might think.

That sounds a decent start to a Good Old Fashioned Conspiracy Theory.

Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Some ######s believe The Jews control the "left-wing media". Then there are other people who believe the "left-wing media" is siding with the Palestinians and only telling one side of the story.