There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Something that amazes me about humankind is the billions of people that have believed in a higher power, in some way, shape or form, throughout history. There is something to learn about human nature and desire when considering how many cultures have came to the conclusion that supernatural powers do exist without any communication between them.

I cannot grasp how so many people believe in something they've never seen. It's amazing actually. I don't mean to sound condescending.

Well genetists do believe they found a 'god gene' and that our brains are hardwired to believe in something larger in ourselves, so the answer could be biological. I read an article where evolutionary advantages to believing in some sort of god were explained, but I can't remember exactly what they were.

I'll look it up, see if I can find it again.

Kinda funny if it's true. Cause people and groups usually turn it into a god vs. evolution debate (even though there could be ways that both are true or neither are true). Wouldn't it be hilarious if 'God', or the concept of such, was an evolutionary advantage that was (or possibly still is) very important to our races being and success?

I'd laugh. Kinda sticking it to both sides on that one. Fundamentalists on both sides would have to agree that the two are connected, and actually rely on each other!

[Igottago]

Isn't religion essentially an organized group who believe in a set of principles and philosophies?

So now atheists want to be recognized as a group with their own principles and philosophies? Kind of ironic.

Seems to me they are basically taking the Seinfeld approach and creating a religion about nothing.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Isn't religion essentially an organized group who believe in a set of principles and philosophies?

So now atheists want to be recognized as a group with their own principles and philosophies? Kind of ironic.

Seems to me they are basically taking the Seinfeld approach and creating a religion about nothing.

Atheism, as a political/social movement, has always had a loosely-defined set of principles and philosophies. I don't see what's new or controversial about that.

The difference between atheists and followers of theistic religions is that atheists don't acknowledge the existance of an all-powerful magical space fairy who created the universe.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Isn't religion essentially an organized group who believe in a set of principles and philosophies?

So now atheists want to be recognized as a group with their own principles and philosophies? Kind of ironic.

Seems to me they are basically taking the Seinfeld approach and creating a religion about nothing.

Makes sense. Though I think an aetheist would argue that the very thing that all (or most) religions hold in common is the very thing they reject. Not sure what you'd call it... 'spirituality', the belief that there's 'more out there than we know/supernatural beings exist'.

If a religion is "an organized group who believe in a set of principles and philosophies", I'm not sure aetheists count, as the only common principle/philosophy they have is the rejection of religion... there isn't a whole 'set of beliefs' associated with Aetheism... as far as I know.

[Thor]

Damn those pushy Atheists!

[Daradon]

Here's a quote from an article in the Guardian, relating to what I was talking about before. Just one article and two books I believe. There is much more written about the subject.

'In his book Darwin's Cathedral, David Sloan Wilson, professor of biology and anthropology at Binghamton University in New York state, says that religiosity emerged as a "useful" genetic trait because it had the effect of making social groups more unified. The communal nature of religion certainly would have given groups of hunter-gatherers a stronger sense of togetherness. This produced a leaner, meaner survival machine, a group that was more likely to be able to defend a waterhole, or kill more antelope, or capture their opponents' daughters. The better the religion was at producing an organised and disciplined group, the more effective they would have been at staying alive, and hence at passing their genes on to the next generation. This is what we mean by "natural selection": adaptations which help survival and reproduction get passed down through the genes. Taking into account the additional suggestion, from various studies of twins, that we may have an inherited disposition towards religious belief, is there any evidence that the Divine Idea might be carried in our genes?'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005...ienceandnature

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Atheism, as a political/social movement, has always had a loosely-defined set of principles and philosophies. I don't see what's new or controversial about that.

The difference between atheists and followers of theistic religions is that atheists don't acknowledge the existance of an all-powerful magical space fairy who created the universe.

And there it is...the condescending tone of an atheist, acting like they have some higher level of intelligence because they don't believe in a "space fairy" as you put it.

Say what you will, but despite the damage that people have done in the name of religion, there has been a lot of good that's come from faith in the space fairy as well.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Igottago

And there it is...the condescending tone of an atheist,

Any worse than the condescending tone of the theist?

Like these ones:

'You're going to hell if you don't believe what I believe'
'You're less moral because you don't believe in God'

I'm not sure the religious side wants to accuse the other side of being condescending. And yes I understand not every believer is like that. But most were at some point, and many still are today.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Igottago

And there it is...the condescending tone of an atheist, acting like they have some higher level of intelligence because they don't believe in a "space fairy" as you put it.

Say what you will, but despite the damage that people have done in the name of religion, there has been a lot of good that's come from faith in the space fairy as well.

Still if I had to pick one of two people to marry, do a project, live with, get trapped on a desert island, anything etc and one believed in an invisible man in the sky, a man who died for our sins, eternal life/purgatory/hell, scripture, the word of god, the exodus, that Muhammad wasn't crazy etc and they believed any one, or all of these things I would pick the one who didn't believe in it 10 times out of 10.

Unless I was going to war maybe. People who are fighting in the name of god do such a better god than people who aren't, even when they have nationality to fight for. There is something about fighting in the name of God that makes people great fighters.

[troutman]

I was on the Board of SHIC, and a group splintered off under the umbrella of the Center of Free Inquiry. There was a tension between SHIC just being a social organization, or being activist. I don't think the movement gains much by being agressive.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Any worse than the condescending tone of the theist?

Like these ones:

'You're going to hell if you don't believe what I believe'
'You're less moral because you don't believe in God'

I'm not sure the religious side wants to accuse the other side of being condescending. And yes I understand not every believer is like that. But most were at some point, and many still are today.

Agreed. I just find it funny that the very thing that "atheists" seem to despise about organized religion is something is something that they themselves seem to be doing now, by organizing and getting their message out there.

In the end, neither side of the debate has any proof of being correct. I really think the only way we ever find out is when we bite the dust. And when that happens, I choose to have faith that I'll be hangin with the space fairy..or something.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Say what you will, but despite the damage that people have done in the name of religion, there has been a lot of good that's come from faith in the space fairy as well.

C. Hitchens always poses this question - is there anything good that has been done by the faithful, that could not be done by the non-religious? Not one person has ever answered this question according to him.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Isn't religion essentially an organized group who believe in a set of principles and philosophies?

So now atheists want to be recognized as a group with their own principles and philosophies? Kind of ironic.

A common response is that one philosophy is based on faith, and the other is based on reason. Not the same at all.

[Daradon]

RE igottago^^^ Heheh yup. Either side you are on, people are people and often act the same way. They just do it in the name of someone or something else.

Fundamentalists can still be jerks on either side.

There are plenty of good natured believers though, and plenty of good natured atheists who just believe what they believe because it makes the most sense for their lives.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by troutman

I was on the Board of SHIC, and a group splintered off under the umbrella of the Center of Free Inquiry. There was a tension between SHIC just being a social organization, or being activist. I don't think the movement gains much by being agressive.

There's a difference between aggressive and involved in the public debate, and for humanists, secularists, atheists, agnostics, etc.. Just to get organized to push back against religious dogma that affects our laws, policy decisions and ultimately is a huge issue in world politics.

These campaigns on the bus ads are so incredibly benign but the reactions and attention it get is the definition of irony. Religious leaders being offended at the audacity of people even making such a statement as "There probably is no God, so stop worrying and enjoy your life."

I mean as a group we are all pretty much in agreement on key things, but this loose organization of people who think alike in some key aspects is damned if they speak up, damned if they don't.

If we organize its apparently ironic to the religious, I guess somewhere they decided if you organize as a group you are just like any religion lol.

If we do nothing, never speak out, then Religion has no counter point and no counter argument to it, when daily religion loudly pushes its views on Television, Print, through politicians and even worse through the laws it pushes on us like restricting stem cell research, withholding gay marriage freedoms, etc..

For the non believers that think we shouldn't run ad campaigns or that Dawkins/Hitchens are big meanies that are hurting the poor defenseless religious folk in the world; you have every right to not speak your mind or be involved in the public discourse, but don't think since some of us do speak up it makes us anything like that which we oppose.

We only organize because we got fed up with Bush, we got fed up with Creationism pushing to get back into public schools, we got fed up with the rise in religiosity in the Muslim world and in the US after 9/11.

[Russic]

[llama64]

Originally Posted by troutman

A common response is that one philosophy is based on faith, and the other is based on reason. Not the same at all.

No... both are based on reason.

It's just that the information and assumptions are different.

Both Atheism and all other belief systems have to make base level assumptions about the nature of knowledge, reality and our place there-in. Course, whether or not something based on science boils down to a belief system is a matter of philosophical debate, and not one that is winnable for either side.

As long as one of these systems isn't forced on me against my will, I think all of them offer something to human society. Debating the validity of belief systems is counter-productive in my opinion. It's far more important to focus on how to let existing systems co-exist without fighting.

But most importantly, it's not God or a lack there-of that I fear... It's Ceiling Cat.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Okay, I didn't want to wade into another religous debate, but I will.

The issue that I have with these billboards is that it is exactly the type of thing the typical Angry Persecuted Athiest claim is their biggest issue with hardcore religious groups.

Yes putting up billboards to try to shame people into believeing what you did is annonying and a dick move, and yes, crazy fundamentalist groups clearly did it first, but being a dick is being a dick.

I guess that's my stance. I don't care if you're a hardcore fundamentalist, an athiest, or just an agnostic, as long as you treat everyone with respect I have no problem with you.

I can name a lot of religious types (though none I know personally) who I do have a problem with because they won't leave well enough alone, and I can name just as many athiests (interestingly enough, a few I know personally, and a few I know from this board) who I feel the same way about.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Any worse than the condescending tone of the theist?

Like these ones:

'You're going to hell if you don't believe what I believe'

Funny, that's exactly what my ex-girlfriend used to say to me... didn't stop her from sleeping with me though!

[PsYcNeT]

Easy answer:

Start a pragmatism patrol to forcibly smackdown anybody who does something stupid.