2009 NFL Off Season Thread

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Those types of things can be speculated upon, but hardly proven with respect to the effect on the on-field product. Did T.O. really cause the Cowboys to be absolutely disgraced against the Eagles?

There are too many variables involved; one can't simply point the finger at a single convenient player and blame them for a team's ills.

I'm basing that upon his history in SF and Phil, both of which were well documented, and the stories out of Dallas which sounded awfully similar.

It doesn't seem like T.O has changed.

Personally , I hope JJ doesn't cut him. I'd love to see the drama last a bunch more years in Dallas.

[burn_baby_burn]

Lions hire Jim Schwartz as coach.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3835911

DETROIT -- The Detroit Lions agreed on a four-year deal Thursday with Tennessee defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz to be their coach.
Schwartz will attempt to lead a turnaround for the NFL's first 0-16 team. The Lions fired Rod Marinelli two weeks ago and interviewed several candidates, including Dolphins assistant head coach Todd Bowles.
Schwartz will be introduced at a news conference Friday at Ford Field, the home of the Lions.
The 42-year-old Schwartz just finished his eighth season as the Titans' defensive coordinator and his 10th on their staff. He interviewed for a second time with the Lions on Monday.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Those types of things can be speculated upon, but hardly proven with respect to the effect on the on-field product. Did T.O. really cause the Cowboys to be absolutely disgraced against the Eagles?

There are too many variables involved; one can't simply point the finger at a single convenient player and blame them for a team's ills.

There are lots of variables: the impact of an individual player on a team depends on the team and the individual.

1) The Ottawa Senators got rid of Emery who was supposedly the cause of the team falling apart internally which resulted in a poor on ice performance. Obviously, eliminating that "cancer" wasnt sufficient to right the ship.

2) The Dallas Stars. Got rid of Avery and things seem to be getting better in Dallas immediately afterwards (they beat the Flames, anyways). I think Dallas will make the playoffs.

3) SF Giants. Barry Bonds is the most me-first baseball player I can think of. The detrimental effect on the team is up in the air. I don't know.

3) The Dallas Cowboys. The biggest factor that makes me think Owens is a problem on that team which outweighs his on field contributions is that he goes too any length to make his point. In the media, talking to former players (I'm looking at you Michael Irvin and Keyshawn Johnson), in the ear of his QB while following him up and down the sidelines, arguing with the OCoordinator in the middle of the game.

Owens is too amazing of a talent to be bounced around that much while he was still playing at a very high level without there being legitimacy to the accusations that he's a problem to the team's chemistry. The guy is a cancer and he gets third (soon to be 4th) chances because he's one of the best wide receivers to play. I think that players stop playing for him on the field... Romo would rather look into a tight window to get Crayton or Witten the ball than look to Owens.

I think he's rightfully done in Dallas. For awhile there I thought Jerry Jones was going to take a run at Al Davis' record for most criminals, misfits, rejects and rehabbers he could fit on one team. At least the Raiders can still be first in something.

[Machiavelli]

^ Good post.

I'm not arguing that Owens hasn't been a distraction or a bad teammate at times. What I am saying is that the Cowboys are dense in the head if they think getting rid of him is a good idea.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

^ Good post.

I'm not arguing that Owens hasn't been a distraction or a bad teammate at times. What I am saying is that the Cowboys are dense in the head if they think getting rid of him is a good idea.

Really? You know your team alot better than I do, but I disagree. There's even been a couple of Cowboys sources wishing to remain nameless popping up in ESPN articles lately sounding like they wish he was gone. At the very least, it points to troubles in the locker room. I think if they can somehow manage to re-sign Roy Williams(which will probably only happen if TO goes, seeing the miniscule # of balls thrown his way), they will be much better off.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Really? You know your team alot better than I do, but I disagree. There's even been a couple of Cowboys sources wishing to remain nameless popping up in ESPN articles lately sounding like they wish he was gone. At the very least, it points to troubles in the locker room. I think if they can somehow manage to re-sign Roy Williams(which will probably only happen if TO goes, seeing the miniscule # of balls thrown his way), they will be much better off.

I just can't work my head around that logic. Getting rid of a perennial 1000-yd receiver will make the Cowboys better?

I'd like to see how Roblow does without a decent WR to throw to. Roy Williams is not the answer.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I'd like to see how Roblow does without a decent WR to throw to. Roy Williams is not the answer.

Can't be any worse than he's been with Owens in the lineup.

[Machiavelli]

Okay....they get rid of Owens and I'd love to see how they replace his yards. Roy Williams isn't half the receiver T.O. is.

[burn_baby_burn]

At TO's age his skills are going to start eroding fairly quickly. It doesn't matter if your in incredible shape anymore, all the defensive players are in incredible shape as well. If the Cowboys can move TO while he is still perceived to have some value they should do it. It is only a matter of time before father time catches up with him.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I just can't work my head around that logic. Getting rid of a perennial 1000-yd receiver will make the Cowboys better?

I'd like to see how Roblow does without a decent WR to throw to. Roy Williams is not the answer.

I guess it comes down to looking at the team as a whole and debating whether the 1000 yards a season is worth the rain cloud always hanging over the teams head. You have to imagine that the constant criticism (or imminent criticism) wears on Romo, Witten, Barber, the OCoordinator and the other WRs. If the Cowboys go into next year with Crayton, Williams, Witten and perhaps another WR from the draft/depth chart/FA, they overall offense will be more balanced and happier?

I definitely don't finger 100% of the problems on Owens... but his track record, to me, says he's a considerable factor (like 72.45%).

[Bobblehead]

TO is a better receiver when he is part of a balanced offense with multiple receiving targets. Only he doesn't see it that way. Personally, I don't even thing Owens is an elite WR anymore. Fitzgerald, Boldin, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, a reformed Randy Moss are all far better players than TO.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Really? You know your team alot better than I do, but I disagree. There's even been a couple of Cowboys sources wishing to remain nameless popping up in ESPN articles lately sounding like they wish he was gone. At the very least, it points to troubles in the locker room. I think if they can somehow manage to re-sign Roy Williams(which will probably only happen if TO goes, seeing the miniscule # of balls thrown his way), they will be much better off.

Cowboys re-signed Williams when they made the trade.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Can't be any worse than he's been with Owens in the lineup.

In terms of talent he is right there with Owens. Williams has awesome talent and can make some amazing catches, the problem is he, like Owens, has attitude/focus issues and can easily take 2-3 games off in a row.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I just can't work my head around that logic. Getting rid of a perennial 1000-yd receiver will make the Cowboys better?

I'd like to see how Roblow does without a decent WR to throw to. Roy Williams is not the answer.

One way I suppose you could look at it is the '07 Giants. Jeremy Shockey was always whining for the ball, you could tell Eli felt pressured to target him down the field regularly, probably resulting in looking off a better option and forcing balls which could end up incomplete or even picked. But once Shockey went down, you could see the difference in Eli's game. Looks for the open receiver, regardless of who it is, and delivers the ball. He's looked like a different QB since Shockey left the line-up(though he obviously struggled without Plax). So while the over-all skillset of the Giants receiving core dropped when they dealt Shockey, its production(and the QB's) actually improved.

I guess everyone's got their take on it, and mine could be wrong. But I just put alot of stock in how important a happy and cohesive locker room is. It's amazing what a difference it can make(look at the '08 Stampeders, compared to the previous three years). And I just dont see the Cowboys getting to that point without dropping a few idiots(like they did with Pacman), including T.O.

[burn_baby_burn]

^Brett Favre showed great improvement once Sterling Sharpe left the Packers. I read in SI that Favre said that he felt pressure to get the ball to Sterling on every snap. Once Sterling was out of the lineup, Favre felt more relaxed.

[SteveToms]

Gruden fired

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3839188

[Pagal4321]

Wow, GM Brian Allen fired too.

What's odd is that this decision was so delayed. They should have fired them both right after they got eliminated from the playoffs.

Mike Shanahan, welcome to Tampa Bay????

[SteveToms]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Wow, GM Brian Allen fired too.

What's odd is that this decision was so delayed. They should have fired them both right after they got eliminated from the playoffs.

Mike Shanahan, welcome to Tampa Bay????

Please god no.

[burn_baby_burn]

Interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing Gruden in KC.

[Pagal4321]

Well it makes little sense to fire your GM and Head Coach about 2.5 weeks after the regular season ended, unless you have someone in line to take over both positions. And really Shanahan is the only person I see that isn't working somewhere that fits the bill.

[browna]

Hmmm..Tony Dungy back to TB?

Given this somewhat out of left field, Malcom Glazer must have someone specific in mind to fill those positions that can't wait another couple weeks.