McKenna tells Canadians to stop being smug

[HOZ]

Sounds like sound advice!

Stop being a smug Canuck!

[Flame On]

Like he says intellectually it makes sense. But I just get sick of America's approach. there's several deals that we've got issues with them, whole industries that have or are being ruined by them and they essentially do nothing. Then they have the audacity to complain if we don't like something and share it! It's not like we've stopped anything they've wanted to do. They just don't like the fact that they're name is scum around the world and everyone points and says look even Canada is sick of them. Well it's up to you to clean your room. Fear of further attack is understandable but doesn't excuse everything and certainly doesn't mean we all have to agree to their new ideals!
Basically that article is saying bend over and pretend you like it and trade will go better.
Having said that, I'm sure there are areas we can improve but still....

[FlamesAddiction]

I think McKenna has a good point but is also out to lunch a little.

On one hand, I agree that Canadians dealing with Americans should not act "smug". It's just common courtesy. Besides, a great deal of Americans are not exactly happy about the way things have gone lately, so it is not good to make generalizations. Many Americans I have talked to (albeit, via the internet) see themselves the same way many Canadians do, and they don't like it.

I also agree with McKenna that Americans, because of 9/11, understandably want to do more to protect themselves. That is fine with me, and as for their domestic policies, I don't really care what they do. To each their own, and as long as they don't try to project it on others, I couldn't care less. The problem I have is with their foreign policies which are everyone's business. If someone is a citizen of this planet, then they have a right to protest, be vocal, smug, and express themselves in a peaceful manner on such issues. September the 11th does not give the U.S.A. the right to do whatever they want when it will negatively affect people who had nothing to do with it.

McKenna also seems to think Americans have an excuse for their attitudes because they are "protecting" their interests, but he isn't allowing Canada the same luxury. What he sees as "Canadian smugness" is what I would see as many Canadians vocalizing their disagreement with a country whose policies have a huge affect on this country. That is also protectionism.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

The most powerful nation in the world, the leader amongst countries should be held to the highest standard. I think that's only natural.

As Canadians we are endlessly affected by the choices the US makes. However we have no vote and no say in these choices. Once again I think it's natural for us to criticize given that we have no actual say in the country that rules this continent.

The US is in the best position to help the entire world. They are in the best position to make progress for humanity. Instead what we see is a lot of selfish interest, greed and ignorance about what's going on in the rest of the world. What we see is a lot of exploitation. I would think EVERYBODY would criticize that.

It's not like the US is well thought of in most of the world. If they cared what people thought, they would act quite a bit diferently. Sure Canada doesn't have all it's crap together either but holding the most powerful country to a high standard should be encouraged IMO.

[habernac]

chalk me up as another who's tired of anti-American sentiment. Don't paint them all with the same brush.

[Bingo]

I don't think Canada, or the Canadian government should ever give Americans a blank cheque of support. Doesn't make sense.

But find a way to remain supportive of at least some of their innitatives, and say no when you must with some class to avoid the mess we've now built for ourselves.

Chretian suggesting they brought 911 on themselves - he's allowed to think such a thing, I'd disagree, but don't get quoted on it.

Parrish et al - internal muzzle on these things to stop them from happening. If he would have hammered that assistant that first stepped out others wouldn't have followed.

Act like you have a clue - don't suggest support for something (missile defence) then let months go by without committing to either side only to pull out at the last minute.

and I'm sure there are a dozen more examples.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

^^^ same.

"In short, a self-righteousness that isn't very flattering"

I think that line says it best.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by fotze@Jun 6 2005, 03:48 PM
There is a difference between 'Americans' and American foreign policy. It is alright to rail against the policy part.

However one might ask oneself as to who has the power to change American policy?

Americans do.

Obviously the media is a giant propaganda machine and there are endless distractions to take one's mind off what's really happening in the world but I think a lot of Canadians are frustrated that Americans overall don't seem to care enough to change their country. We can't do it, they are the only ones who can. Was talking about this subject with a few friends on the weekend and someone brought up the point that a lot of the people he had met down there didn't like the ways things were but that they were resigned to it. They didn't think it could be helped or changed. That disempowering attitude is disconcerting to anybody who isn't in the most powerful country in the world and is concerned about where the US is leading us and the example they are setting for the rest of the world.

I think for me it boils down to the belief that people are upset that Americans don't demand better of their government and their media. It's like they get a free pass because people don't believe they have the power to make a difference or change anything.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by Flames Draft Watcher@Jun 6 2005, 09:04 AM


I think a lot of Canadians are frustrated that Americans overall don't seem to care enough to change their country. We can't do it, they are the only ones who can. Was talking about this subject with a few friends on the weekend and someone brought up the point that a lot of the people he had met down there didn't like the ways things were but that they were resigned to it. They didn't think it could be helped or changed. That disempowering attitude is disconcerting to anybody who isn't in the most powerful country in the world and is concerned about where the US is leading us and the example they are setting for the rest of the world.

What a hypocritical stance that would be for Canadians to take.

We know what Americans ought to be doing but they're not willing to do it and for this we look down on them.

Meanwhile, back in our own barn the sheeple baaaa endlessly.

[MarchHare]

Meanwhile, back in our own barn the sheeple baaaa endlessly.

That's right. All those who support the Liberal Party are mindless sheep who are completely incapable of thinking for themselves.

Please, can we stop this already? There's plenty of good reasons to support the Liberal Party (or oppose the Conservative Party). Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they're innately wrong. I don't agree with the CPC platform, but I don't belittle the intelligence of anyone who does.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois+Jun 6 2005, 04:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bend it like Bourgeois @ Jun 6 2005, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flames Draft Watcher@Jun 6 2005, 09:04 AM


I think a lot of Canadians are frustrated that Americans overall don't seem to care enough to change their country. We can't do it, they are the only ones who can. Was talking about this subject with a few friends on the weekend and someone brought up the point that a lot of the people he had met down there didn't like the ways things were but that they were resigned to it. They didn't think it could be helped or changed. That disempowering attitude is disconcerting to anybody who isn't in the most powerful country in the world and is concerned about where the US is leading us and the example they are setting for the rest of the world.

What a hypocritical stance that would be for Canadians to take.

We know what Americans ought to be doing but they're not willing to do it and for this we look down on them.

Meanwhile, back in our own barn the sheeple baaaa endlessly. [/b][/quote]
Kind of hard to parallel the situations don't you think? It's not like Canada invaded a country in the oil rich part of the world on false pretences and then elected the same government is it? It's not like the Republicans = the Liberals is it? Our government hasn't run the deficit quite as high per capita as the US has it?

In fact I fail to see many parallels. Please tell us about how these situations are similar why don't you?

As I said, it's not like Canada has all it's crap together. But does that mean we should not hold the world's most powerful country to a high standard? Do you think we should just accept everything they do and not question it because our country isn't perfect?

Right now the US has the most affect on humanity as a whole. EVERYBODY should be very concerned about what they do, why they do it and how things can be changed.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Jun 6 2005, 09:24 AM

That's right. All those who support the Liberal Party are mindless sheep who are completely incapable of thinking for themselves.

Please, can we stop this already? There's plenty of good reasons to support the Liberal Party (or oppose the Conservative Party). Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they're innately wrong. I don't agree with the CPC platform, but I don't belittle the intelligence of anyone who does.

I've applied that label to Liberals and Conservatives and made no reference to either here.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by Flames Draft Watcher@Jun 6 2005, 09:42 AM

Kind of hard to parallel the situations don't you think? It's not like Canada invaded a country in the oil rich part of the world on false pretences and then elected the same government is it? It's not like the Republicans = the Liberals is it? Our government hasn't run the deficit quite as high per capita as the US has it?

In fact I fail to see many parallels. Please tell us about how these situations are similar why don't you?

As I said, it's not like Canada has all it's crap together. But does that mean we should not hold the world's most powerful country to a high standard? Do you think we should just accept everything they do and not question it because our country isn't perfect?

The parallel is that you and others have defending Canadians for not being critical of our governments because we don't have enough options and our system doesn't seem to empower us to change.

If Canadians get to justify their own actions that way, it's hypocritical of us to look south and hang them for the same thing.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois+Jun 6 2005, 04:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bend it like Bourgeois @ Jun 6 2005, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flames Draft Watcher@Jun 6 2005, 09:42 AM

Kind of hard to parallel the situations don't you think? It's not like Canada invaded a country in the oil rich part of the world on false pretences and then elected the same government is it? It's not like the Republicans = the Liberals is it? Our government hasn't run the deficit quite as high per capita as the US has it?

In fact I fail to see many parallels. Please tell us about how these situations are similar why don't you?

As I said, it's not like Canada has all it's crap together. But does that mean we should not hold the world's most powerful country to a high standard? Do you think we should just accept everything they do and not question it because our country isn't perfect?

The parallel is that you and others have defending Canadians for not being critical of our governments because we don't have enough options and our system doesn't seem to empower us to change.

If Canadians get to justify their own actions that way, it's hypocritical of us to look south and hang them for the same thing. [/b][/quote]
I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I'm very critical of government and am very interested in finding ways to change things in our own country. I am going to be taking some poli sci courses in the next few years as I go back to school and you may see me get involved in national politics at some point because I feel we do need to demand better from our government here in Canada.

I will criticize both Canadians and Amercians for not caring and not getting involved in politics. But you must also realize that in the grand scheme of the things (at the world level) Americans can make more of a difference to humanity for the positive or the negative. And if you're arguing that we can't criticize them or their government then I must disagree.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois+Jun 6 2005, 09:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bend it like Bourgeois @ Jun 6 2005, 09:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flames Draft Watcher@Jun 6 2005, 09:42 AM

Kind of hard to parallel the situations don't you think? It's not like Canada invaded a country in the oil rich part of the world on false pretences and then elected the same government is it? It's not like the Republicans = the Liberals is it? Our government hasn't run the deficit quite as high per capita as the US has it?

In fact I fail to see many parallels. Please tell us about how these situations are similar why don't you?

As I said, it's not like Canada has all it's crap together. But does that mean we should not hold the world's most powerful country to a high standard? Do you think we should just accept everything they do and not question it because our country isn't perfect?

The parallel is that you and others have defending Canadians for not being critical of our governments because we don't have enough options and our system doesn't seem to empower us to change.

If Canadians get to justify their own actions that way, it's hypocritical of us to look south and hang them for the same thing. [/b][/quote]
True but our actions are affecting us alone for the most part. If our political sittuation changed the lives of people around the world I dare say Canada would come under more flack and certainly from the States, and they'd be well within their rights. People forget that critisism was what founded their country. Taxation without representation.