Upgrade this desktop or scrap it and buy new one? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

MissKat · 01-09-2009, 10:00 AM

The computer is a Dell Dimension 4600, P4 2.8. Its an older computer, had it for 6yrs now but the HD is on its way out and the fans in the power supply and extra heatsink are just about dead too (even after a thorough dusting cleaning with canned air), barely spinning at all. This comp. is only used for web, email since it stays in the guest room.

Specs in detail
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/del...tag=mncol;psum

I figured even though Ive had it for 6yrs now, the CPU is still more than adequate for web and email. It only has 512MB ram, so I was thinking about just upgrading the parts.

- new power supply (approx $90)
- new heatsink (approx $50)
- new 320GB hard drive (approx $60)
- 2GB ram (approx $50)

total cost - $250 rough estimate.

What do you guys think? Upgrade with the parts I listed or buy new? If I do the later, I should be able to sell the old one for parts (even though it would be a hassle).

If you say I should buy new. Would any of you computer tech gurus be able to build me a more than acceptable desktop for the lowest price on www.memoryexpress.com?

If I do upgrade the parts...
1) How do I tell what kind of power supply I need for this specific model? How high in watts should I go?
2) This computer uses DDR 2700mhz ram, 3200mhz DDR sticks will work, it just clocks down?

Vulcan · 01-09-2009, 10:39 AM

I'd buy new.
1. Look for a brand name PSU with 80% efficiency.
Here's a calculator I just found on google to find what size you need but I'd go well over any results found on the web.

http://www.journeysystems.com/?power_supply_calculator

Often the video card manufacturer will quote the minimum PSU required for their GPU, which will also get you in the ballpark of what's required.

Uh, here's a better calculator, use the lite version.

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

dobbles · 01-09-2009, 01:01 PM

if you have a pc that doesnt have a bulky graphics card or lots of drives, you should be fine with a 300-400 watt PS. something like that would cost way under the 90 you budgeted. i think i got my 450w last year like something like 40 bucks.

regarding the decision to go with new or just upgrade, i think you do need to consider if you will ever want to use the pic for anything in the future? because if you do, by that time older style of RAM might be pricey (i assume it has regular ddr) you probably wont have any sata capabilites, etc... because it could get to the point that if you wanted to upgrade anything, the mobo and everything would have to go and you would be left with a case and some spare parts to start with.

GoFlambe · 01-09-2009, 04:10 PM

I have this exact same model and it's still going strong!

Actually, the first thing to go was the hard drive; it died about one week after my one year warranty was up. But after that, everything is still running to this day and I still use the machine as a spare for guests like yourself. I added an extra hard drive, an extra DVD burner, and it all ran off the original power supply. I eventually upgraded the video card to an NVIDIA 6600GT (and then later, a 6800GS), and that was when I had to upgrade the power supply.

I agree with dobbles; if you haven't upgraded anything else on the machine like the video card, you can probably get a 300-400W powersupply for 30-40 bucks, maybe even less if you look online. These models initially shipped with a 250W power supply so if the components haven't changed since you bought it, anything more than 300 or 400W would probably be overkill anyways.

$50 for 2GB of PC3200 RAM is a steal; I remember when I bought this machine 5-6 years ago and put 2GB in (4 sticks of 512MB) it cost me over $200 (didn't buy it from Dell, if I did, it would have cost $400 or something stupid if I recall). Heck, I'm not even sure you can get it for that cheap anymore since it's rather old and manufacturers have stopped making it.

The hard drive price is reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean by the heatsink is dying though. On my model, the heatsink is this massive hunk of metal that attaches to the CPU and lives under a green duct that connects to the back case fan and it's the back case fan that pulls the air out and shunts it to the back of the case. Compare with a normal CPU heatsink and fan combo where the fan is mounted directly on top of the heat sink. I rather like this design as it's very quiet. Dust tends to build up on the heat sink though, so sometimes I have to remove the green duct and take some compressed air and dust it. But there is no way for this heat sink to die since it's just a hunk of metal. The back case fan could die, and that's easily replaceable for less than $10, but the original is still going strong.

If you can do this for under $200, I'd say just upgrade. The system is still pretty good (it wouldn't be running Vista, and to be honest, you probably wouldn't want to anyways) and since the RAM is cheap and available, I agree with dobbles that now would be the time to do it if you plan on using it some more in the future because finding more DDR RAM might be difficult in the future. That plus you wouldn't have to waste time setting up another machine; you could just continue using it once you transfer your data from the old drive to the new drive. If it'll cost $300-400 or more to do the repair work, then it becomes harder. You can find new machines for $400-500 or more if you wait for sales from Dell or the big box stores.

Edit: To answer the rest of your questions, you'll need at least a 250W ATX power supply to power it assuming nothing else has changed in terms of hardware, although any of the power supplies you can buy today should be sufficient in terms of watts and connectors.

PC3200 DDR RAM will work in the machine, and yes, it'll clock down (I'm using this type of RAM myself). Actually, PC3200 RAM is ideal for this configuration because it'll run at a 1:1 ratio with the CPU. Just make sure it's DDR RAM and not DDR2 or DDR3; those newer sticks won't work with this machine.

Hack&Lube · 01-09-2009, 04:18 PM

follow the advice here:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/s...d.php?t=685084

Finding old 2700 or 3200 ram, especially 2GB for $50 is somewhat difficult and unrealistic. New ram is cheap. Old ram is expensive. To figure out what PSU you need just read the label on your old one.

That $250 can get you a respectable and fast modern machine if you know what you are doing

Traditional_Ale · 01-09-2009, 04:38 PM

I just built a gaming computer for another CPer, CaptainCanada80, and his total price including my (very very fair) system builder's fee was around $800.

For your needs, that number would drop significantly.

Actually, even just re-using the chassis & DVD drive will save you about $150.

PM me if you would like me to build the system for you.

Hack&Lube · 01-09-2009, 04:43 PM

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...=B450-2340%20C

Complete dual core computer that is faster than yours for $199. Similar deals can be found in many places, even locally.

$250 to upgrade that old computer with outdated junk parts is ridiculous.

Also, memoryexpress is not cheap. It's one of the more expensive computer shops and they have a ridiculous monopoly in Calgary. I avoid shopping there as much as possible unless looking for higher end parts. If you are looking for an everyday simple computer, you can often find bundled or discounted OEM computer packages at Futureshop (especially Red Table or off the shelf in the corner often) or the website for much cheaper than Memex and they had superior parts and features too.

If you are intent on saving your old computer, it's better to ghetto mod it to working ability for under $100 than to spend $250 on it. I'd clean out the heatsink with a vacuum, rip out the old fan. Use twist ties to strap on a cheap 80mm fan to it. Get a super cheap harddrive from a sale, futureshop's red table, or your friends or other forums, etc. Cheap powersupplies can be found from forums and friends too. A $30 should be enough for you. I'd say 350 watts even. As for the ram - that's the hard part. Older ram is more expensive because of lower supply and higher demand. You would have to resort to ebay or something (about $60 shipped for 2GB PC2700) I doubt you would find it locally for a good price.

Traditional_Ale · 01-09-2009, 04:59 PM

^ I disagree.

Pre-fabbed total computer packages are manufactured using the lowest quality components, and usually some knock-off anyway.

Maybe by going to memoryexpress or Computer Rack you end up spending an extra hundred bucks, but you get high-end name-brand components that have individual warranty.

Pre-fab system warranty means the whole tower goes in. On individual parts, its a trip to the store and 5 mins to install.

MissKat · 01-09-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Also, memoryexpress is not cheap. It's one of the more expensive computer shops and they have a ridiculous monopoly in Calgary.

Oh, I thought M.E. was one of the lowest for prices in Calgary, at least on parts alone. I dont think im gonna buy from there because I configed the Dell Vortox desktop tower with 2.2 duo core and 2GB ram and the whole works for only $289. 2GB enough for vista?

Traditional_Ale · 01-09-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKat

Oh, I thought M.E. was one of the lowest for prices in Calgary, at least on parts alone. I dont think im gonna buy from there because I configed the Dell Vortox desktop tower with 2.2 duo core and 2GB ram and the whole works for only $289. 2GB enough for vista?

The Starship Enterprise doesn't have enough RAM to run Vista.

Stick with XP-Pro.

Hack&Lube · 01-09-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

^ I disagree.

Pre-fabbed total computer packages are manufactured using the lowest quality components, and usually some knock-off anyway.

Maybe by going to memoryexpress or Computer Rack you end up spending an extra hundred bucks, but you get high-end name-brand components that have individual warranty.

Pre-fab system warranty means the whole tower goes in. On individual parts, its a trip to the store and 5 mins to install.

I totally disagree with you too

The worst that can happen is some lower end motherboard with cheap capacitors. There's really no difference. Most high-end OEM is rebranded stuff anyway. " A couple hundred bucks " is a lot of money and I've never found it to be worth it. A friend asked me to put together a fast system with dual DVI for doing trading, etc. I priced out a system from individual parts at Memex and it was around $800. I did the same thing at Futureshop with a very good OEM off the shelf Acer system and I threw in two $20 PCI videocards and it cost $350 and it had more ram and a faster processor and an excellent fully featured case with cardreaders and stealthed bays. OEM computers by cheaper manufacturers like ACER use the same taiwanese fabs as the high end companies. That Tigerdirect PC has a Biostar board, rendition ram, Seagate harddrive. It's all excellent stuff. The only thing cheaped out on is the case which doesn't really matter and the PSU. I'm one of those guys who has never bought into the high-priced high-wattage PSU hype. I have had expensive Antec PSUs blow out on me while $30 no-name Chinese PSUs have lasted me for 5-6 years. I run an 8800GT on a 250watt PSU. Just make sure you have decent rails for what you need.

This is for the everyday folk who are looking for a web or e-mail or home business computer. The individual parts don't really matter. Whole tower warranty is better. And also, buying individual parts at Memex usually means you only get OEM part warranty which sometimes 30-90 days by Memory Express without support from the actual manufacturer who usually only warranty retail boxed products...if you piece your computer together by retail parts, it's even more expensive.

MissKat · 01-09-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoFlambe

I'm not sure what you mean by the heatsink is dying though. On my model, the heatsink is this massive hunk of metal that attaches to the CPU and lives under a green duct that connects to the back case fan and it's the back case fan that pulls the air out and shunts it to the back of the case.

Yes thats the part im talking about, the huge hunk of metal that has a green plastic end on it. Isnt that the heatsink? I was told that it was but i could be wrong. How would you go about replacing that?

Quote:

it wouldn't be running Vista, and to be honest, you probably wouldn't want to anyways)

Whys that? Cause vista is a RAM hog?

Hack&Lube · 01-09-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

The Starship Enterprise doesn't have enough RAM to run Vista.

Stick with XP-Pro.

Yep. If you still have the Windows liscense key from your old computer, the biggest cost savings are there. Build your own computer or buy a barebones one not from dell. Get one WITHOUT an operating system. Just use your old windows key to install. It will save you a good $50-$150. If you need a CD, you can order them for $10 from Microsoft.

Hack&Lube · 01-09-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKat

Yes thats the part im talking about, the huge hunk of metal that has a green plastic end on it. Isnt that the heatsink? I was told that it was but i could be wrong. How would you go about replacing that?

Whys that? Cause vista is a RAM hog?

Vista just sucks in every possible way. It is hog for processing power, ram, etc. and it's clumsy. Microsoft realized this and all this Windows 7 stuff you are hearing about is because they are reacting to the negative buzz about Vista.

The green part is the duct that ducts the air out of the passive heatsink on dell systems to the rear exhaust fan. That 80mm fan can be had for $3-$10. Why do you think the PSU and HDD are going on you BTW?

MissKat · 01-09-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

The Starship Enterprise doesn't have enough RAM to run Vista.

Stick with XP-Pro.

Oh, so I can put in my old OEM factory restore disk from Dell into the new machine and it will work? Didnt know that.

I will forsure do that....no vista for me.

Traditional_Ale · 01-09-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Yep. If you still have the Windows liscense key from your old computer, the biggest cost savings are there. Build your own computer or buy a barebones one not from dell. Get one WITHOUT an operating system. Just use your old windows key to install. It will save you a good $50-$150. If you need a CD, you can order them for $10 from Microsoft.

Or just borrow one.

H&L: Don't want to quote your huge post, but coming back at you:

When I built the computer for my home studio, I ended up with an Athlon 64X2 - 5200+ (2.8Ghz), 2 Gigs of PC-6400 RAM, 2X 500GB Hard Drives, DVD Burner, Tower & Power Supply, and XP PRO for $450!!!!

A tower with the exact same specs by HP from Futureshop was over $800 at the time.

Also, it doesn't come bogged down with tonnes of crappy pre-installed software that all expires in 90 days.

MissKat · 01-09-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Vista just sucks in every possible way. It is hog for processing power, ram, etc. and it's clumsy. Microsoft realized this and all this Windows 7 stuff you are hearing about is because they are reacting to the negative buzz about Vista.

The green part is the duct that ducts the air out of the passive heatsink on dell systems to the rear exhaust fan. That 80mm fan can be had for $3-$10. Why do you think the PSU and HDD are going on you BTW?

Well I had my brother clean out the insides this past week with canned air, including the fans and PSU and the fans dont seem to be spinning fast at all. He was able to get just about all of the dust out - and htats good considering the thing hasnt been cleaned for 6yrs!

I put my hand next to the vents after the system has been on for awhile and can barely feel any air blowing out. I just remember when I first got the thing, the fans were pushing more air out. Maybe this is normal? Who knows, maybe I dont need a new PSU. I would hate to waste money on a new one if I dont need it.

Hack&Lube · 01-09-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKat

Oh, so I can put in my old OEM factory restore disk from Dell into the new machine and it will work? Didnt know that.

I will forsure do that....no vista for me.

Your restore disk won't work. That disk only works because there is a hidden partition on your dell that has the windows install files on it and the restore disk just activates them.

Just borrow a Windows disk from somebody or get one for $10...but the key on the sticker on your old computer should be valid.

Hack&Lube · 01-09-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKat

Well I had my brother clean out the insides this past week with canned air, including the fans and PSU and the fans dont seem to be spinning fast at all. He was able to get just about all of the dust out - and htats good considering the thing hasnt been cleaned for 6yrs!

I put my hand next to the vents after the system has been on for awhile and can barely feel any air blowing out. I just remember when I first got the thing, the fans were pushing more air out. Maybe this is normal? Who knows, maybe I dont need a new PSU. I would hate to waste money on a new one if I dont need it.

As long as the computer runs and doesn't crash a lot due to heat, it's fine. Your fans might have temperature control so they only spin fast when the computer is really hot.

If I were you and you just want to resurrect a guest room web system, just buy a new harddrive and some ram for the old one.

MissKat · 01-09-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

As long as the computer runs and doesn't crash a lot due to heat, it's fine. Your fans might have temperature control so they only spin fast when the computer is really hot.

If I were you and you just want to resurrect a guest room web system, just buy a new harddrive and some ram for the old one.

Ok thx, ill just do that - get a new HD and 1GB stick of ram. That should give the comp. a nice boost. Ill just get them from M.E. not sure if I feel comfortable buying a used HD or RAM. Should be about $100 tops with tax. Beter than $300 for the new computer when I really dont need it I guess hey?