Legal Help: Police Intimidation

[HOOT]

Personally I would go to court with both tickets in my hand and tell the judge the story.

To me it sounds like he is trying to bully you into paying the first ticket for whatever reason, maybe it's his day off on Friday

I would then speak to his supervisor and tell him the story, also mention to the police station that if this police officer ever pulls you over or comes to your door you want him accompanied by a supervising officer else you will file a complaint to the Province about the harassment you are receiving.

Also mention you have no problem going to the newspapers, but will not bring them into if you are left alone by this officer but if you ever feel threatened by that cop or another one you will be letting your lawyer know. Explain you are not trying to threaten them but you just want your peace and quite, considering it is your right to fight a ticket. If it wasn't they wouldn't allow you to do so!

I use to get harassed by the Police for the type of vehicle I was driving, getting stopped and searched whenever I went to the downtown area I would be pulled over within a few blocks.

I went and talked to my lawyer who instructed me to do exactly what I explained and after talking to the Supervising officer of that area I was never bugged again. Well until I was actually doing something illegal...

Don't let them push you around, cops are pussies and think they hold the power but they are just as powerless as some guy walking down the street when you aren't doing anything illegal.

[RW99]

I'm assuming tickets have a reference number on them? So his first one is say 00100 and the second one is 00110. So he would have issued 9 other tickets in the meantime with later dates. And it would be interesting if one of those tickets can be dated after you set the court date.

Originally Posted by CMPunk

The court date would be overtime, so why would you not want to go?

Court= no vacation.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Court= no vacation.

True, but he's obviously in town, so he can show up. If he doesn't, it's not like they take the ticket out of his pay.

Originally Posted by HOOT

Personally I would go to court with both tickets in my hand and tell the judge the story.

To me it sounds like he is trying to bully you into paying the first ticket for whatever reason, maybe it's his day off on Friday

I would then speak to his supervisor and tell him the story, also mention to the police station that if this police officer ever pulls you over or comes to your door you want him accompanied by a supervising officer else you will file a complaint to the Province about the harassment you are receiving.

Also mention you have no problem going to the newspapers, but will not bring them into if you are left alone by this officer but if you ever feel threatened by that cop or another one you will be letting your lawyer know. Explain you are not trying to threaten them but you just want your peace and quite, considering it is your right to fight a ticket. If it wasn't they wouldn't allow you to do so!

I use to get harassed by the Police for the type of vehicle I was driving, getting stopped and searched whenever I went to the downtown area I would be pulled over within a few blocks.

I went and talked to my lawyer who instructed me to do exactly what I explained and after talking to the Supervising officer of that area I was never bugged again. Well until I was actually doing something illegal...

Don't let them push you around, cops are pussies and think they hold the power but they are just as powerless as some guy walking down the street when you aren't doing anything illegal.

Best post ever!!!

With a name like 'HOOT' and an admission of illegal activity, I would say they were targeting the right person?

Edit: I guess I could have pegged you wrong and you are just a strong supporter of the endangered burrowing owl.

[fredr123]

Two points:

1. Pursuant to s. 4 of the Provincial Offences Procedure Act, a ticket for speeding can be issued up to 6 months from the date of the alleged offence. It's seems pretty lame to get a ticket this late after the offence but it is still within the 6 month period.

2. The "double jeopardy" stuff mentioned above is covered in a Canadian case called Kienapple (and cases that follow it). It's been found to apply to provincial driving offences (say for example impaired driving and driving while suspended). The rule is kind of complicated and not that easy to explain or apply. It would be interesting to see how it would apply to two charges for speeding on the same day at the same time. Could a police officer follow you for two minutes, clocking you at 80 km/hr in 60 zone, and give you two tickets one at 8:00 pm and another for 8:01 pm? I doubt it, but how much of a gap in time do you need to be legit?

[Bagor]

My 2cents .....

Is the second ticket even applicable or relevant? i.e. You are going to court to fight the first ticket.

You get to cross examine him so you have the advantage of seeing if he brings the second ticket up in his statement.

If not, then I would.

Have him explain it and why it took so long for him to issue it. Ask is it in the system. If not, does he intend to enter it in the system, so at least it'll be on record. If it is, again, question why he's only putting it in a few day before the court date. Make him look vindictive.

I would totally deny the 100km/hr.

Something's not right there.

[stang]

I would have told him you will be fighting the second ticket too.

But listen to HOOT

[Dan02]

This stinks to high heaven, i know if i were the judge i'd tell the officer where to go and how to get there, unfortunately for you, I am not.

As far as I am concerned the officer should get to pick 1 speed, whichever is lower is the one that sticks.

[Dang]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll definitely be going to court on Friday to fight this.

I should also mention that on both tickets the police officer "clocked" me going those speeds. He explained that this means that the speeds were not determined by photoradar but by him following my speed with his speedometer.

Since I'm a student at the university I'm going to give Student Legal Assistance a call tomorrow and hopefully get one of them to come down to court with me on Friday. I can't afford a real lawyer.

I'll post those tickets up sometime tonight or tomorrow for you guys to see.

[Rathji]

If this happened to me I would have pulled out the video camera and asked him to repeat his request. I doubt he would have confirmed it on camera but his reaction would probably convince the judge that he did actually make it.

Either way this is bull, and I would fight it to the ends of the earth if it happened to me.

[ken0042]

Years ago I had a cop try something underhanded with me regarding a ticket. Not this serious of course. I went to the Crown Attourney and explained what happened. A few weeks later I got a phone call telling me that I didn't need to appear in court, and the charges were dropped. The officer was also assigned to a desk job for a while as well. (It was a small town, so people know when one of the 6 officers isn't there any more.)

Hoot- great post. Some great advice!

[jayswin]

I emailed your story to a friend of mine, and this is what he sent back...

If he did issue the second one, he would have to cancel the first…he can't get both

Sounds like he made a mistake and wrote 82 in a 60 so he is quashing it based on that and re-issuing for the 104 in an 80. Same difference + 2kms.

Officers have up to 6 months to lay a charge. If one is laid, they do have the option of canceling it within that six months and amending it. Usually that is done if a mistake was made. It seems like, if the events are true in the original comment, that the officer has taken offence to the guy going to court when he gave him a good deal. The problem as I see it, is when an officer swears or signs a ticket, he is alledging the offence occurred. If he reduces it, he's almost swearing to a ticket that isn’t true. In a nut shell, yes he can do it, it is not common practice.

[driveway]

Step one: Acquire cop's address.

Step two: Bag of flaming dog poo.

Step three: Sweet justice.

[Dang]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I emailed your story to a friend of mine, and this is what he sent back...

Thanks for asking your friend for me.

The first ticket was for 82 in a 60 zone and second ticket is for 104 in a 60 zone. First ticket was for $136 and the second is for $255.

I'm fairly sure he wasn't intending it as an amendment but rather as an additional offence.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Dang

I need some help from you guys. I don't post here often but I've lurked for many years.

On August 22, 2008 I get pulled over and get a speeding ticket from a police officer for going 82 km/hr in a 60 zone. However, this was on Country Hills which was under construction but still showed a sign that had a speed limit of 80 km/hr. The police officer tells me that he clocked me going over 100 km/hr at some points.

I take some pictures of the 80km/hr sign and decide to go to court and set a date for this coming Friday. Tonight, the same police officer shows up at my door and asks me if I still intend to go to court on Friday. I say yes and then he pulls out another speeding ticket for going 104 km/hr on that same night! He says that he was letting me off easy for the 82 km/hr and since I've decided to take him to court he's going to issue me this ticket now.

Before he leaves, he says that if I decide to pay off the original 82 km/hr ticket and cancel the court date, he won't "put in" the 104 km/hr ticket into the system.

To me, it seems like the police officer is threatening me with a second ticket if I go to court to fight off the first one.

Is it legal to receive two tickets for the same offense? What advice would you give me in this situation? Should I go to court? File a complaint? Get a lawyer?

Thanks everyone for their help. I still can't believe this just happened to me.

This is not a real ticket...period. A police officer cannot show up at your door with a speeding ticket wrote earlier. The number on the top of the ticket has to correspond with the date of the offence and must be turned into the courts that day/possibly next day because of time and since this ticket couldn't have been turned into the court the day of the offense it is null and void.

He must be two cops, one cop cannot be this stupid.

Another FYI for anybody. If a cop shows up at your door and say he saw you speeding. Never admit anything, ask him for a picture of your car showing a licence plate. He cannot prove you were behind the wheel and unless he had a camera with him(not likely) he cannot charge you with anything. Even if this was a chase and he radioed in your plate the worst you would get is a multi-nova type ticket.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dang

Thanks for asking your friend for me.

The first ticket was for 82 in a 60 zone and second ticket is for 104 in a 60 zone. First ticket was for $136 and the second is for $255.

I'm fairly sure he wasn't intending it as an amendment but rather as an additional offence.

Ah, he must have thought that the second ticket was for 104 in an 80 zone, therefore the cop was basically admitting that he made a mistake by giving you a ticket for speeding in a 60 zone, and feared you would win in court and wanted to ensure you had to pay a fine either way.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I emailed your story to a friend of mine, and this is what he sent back...

If he did issue the second one, he would have to cancel the first…he can't get both

Sounds like he made a mistake and wrote 82 in a 60 so he is quashing it based on that and re-issuing for the 104 in an 80. Same difference + 2kms.

Officers have up to 6 months to lay a charge. If one is laid, they do have the option of canceling it within that six months and amending it. Usually that is done if a mistake was made. It seems like, if the events are true in the original comment, that the officer has taken offence to the guy going to court when he gave him a good deal. The problem as I see it, is when an officer swears or signs a ticket, he is alledging the offence occurred. If he reduces it, he's almost swearing to a ticket that isn’t true. In a nut shell, yes he can do it, it is not common practice.

Except he would have to have been notified by registered mail that the first ticket was "quashed" within 21 days...this didn't happen.

[beachy]

Ok - my hubby used to be a member of CPS & I just explained the situation to him. He says issuing the new ticket is perfectly legal & legit however, the cops threats to give you a bigger ticket if you take it to court is definitely not right.

His suggestion is to call the officers sergeant & citizen complaints to file a complaint about him coming to your house & threating you with a higher ticket if you went to court.
He cannot give you 2 tickets for the same offence, he will have to cancel one of the tickets prior to your court appearance so don't worry about that aspect. He also said the cop is probably not comfortable going to court about this due to it being a 'clocked' speedometer speeding ticket which are often difficult to prove in court.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

definitely a lame move by the cop. Would the higher ticket impact insurance?

Just out of curiousity, for those in the know, how would the excuse on the original ticket play out in court?

If there was a sign saying 80k that doesn't mean there wasn't another temporary sign saying 60k.

Would the cops have to prove the posted speed limit at the point where the speed was clocked and that it was clearly marked, or is it assumed drivers should know its 60 in the construction zone?