Need help buying a surround sound system

[GoinAllTheWay]

In short, I've never had a surround sound system attached to my tv. Figured this year I would look at buying one. Bought a 47" Samsung HD TV last year and really wanted to complete the home theater. So this year I gave myself a budget of $500. I looked at buying seperate recievers and speakers but that gets out of hand in a real hurry. So I decided to try out one of those home theater in a box jobs. Didn't think that was the best way to do it but certainly the most cost effective. I wound up buying a Sony HT-SF 2300 (5.1). Unpacked it, hooked it up and two things concerned me off the get go. The bass is powered by the reciever, not self powered. Secondly, you plug all the speakers into the back of the reciver as opposed to the speaker wire clips you normally see. The system cost $385 on sale.

Sounds ok, not great. I was told Lord of the Rings was a great benchmark as it uses 6.1. I know I'm not going to get the full effect as mine is only 5.1 but dunno, it really lacked something. It's ok I guess but not sure it's quite what I'm after.

I prefer quality of sound over getting my hair blown back. Anyone recommend a good home theatre in a box or do they all more or less blow?

If you were to recommend a good system for not a ton of money for someone just starting out their home theatre experience, what would you recommend? Should I just bite the bullet and buy the reciever and speakers seperatley? I think at this point I would rather deal with my two old speakers for now and get a good reciever and buy the speakers down the road.

Help?

[3 Justin 3]

Don't take this the wrong way, but that was a HORRIBLE decision buying a HTiB. Like yourself I gave myself a budget of around $500 to work with and originally was going to get a HTiB. Then I realized they don't do HD audio (since you have an HD tv, you want that). Then I finally said, this. It may be too late to help you, but on Boxing day they had a Pioneer 1018 receiver going for $400 (they probably sold out in a few hours), regular $600. Now this receiver is awesome, HD audio, tons of ports, etc.

The real thing is it only does 130Watt/channel. For me that is ok because I don't need to be blown back by sound. Now with that said, it is 7.1 so 7x130=880Watts. So in essence by $600 (we will say the regular price), has less Watts then a 1000Watt HTiB. However, those receivers are RUBBISH! My mother owns a HTiB and how that thing outputs 1000Watts is puzzeling, because first of all it doesn't because it would blow the thing in like 2 seconds, but the sound quality will be THE SUCK!

In short, YES, bite the bullet and buy seperate. Just make sure the receiver decodes Dolby TrueHD, and DTS HD Audio. Those are the two HD codecs, for blu-ray etc. This is basically a failsafe that your receiver will last longer than 20 days (technology wise). Just like I was telling my dad, why spend $250 on a receiver that doesn't decode HD codec's, it is just wasting money into OLD TECHNOLOGY. Because sooner or later your going to realize you should have just spent the money (like I did, and I am super glad I spent it). For speakers, I would hunt for deals like me. I don't want to blow $800 on speakers so I am just waiting it out until I find deals. Like Visions has 2 M20 Polk Fronts for $148 (regular 600!!!), and I picked those up yesterday and man they sound awesome.

But little speakers for fronts, like you get in HTiB, or other packages would confuse me. I haven't heard the package ones (like Polk 6750 package), but having these things now I couldn't go to little speakers for my fronts. These are 3 feet tall, and those little things are like 6 inches (you get stands so they are up high at ear level, but still, wtf!).


Oh, and if you already have speakers, even if they are just old ones, then just buy a receiver, and hook those up until you get more money, or decide you want better ones.

If you can, take the HTiB back, and search around for a good receiver. TRY and go to Bestbuy and see if they still have some of mine, but I assume after nearly 10 days, they are sold out.

Just please, don't buy old Technology, spend the extra money.

[ken0042]

Excellent post Justin.

The other thing I would even be inclined to do is buy a decent receiver, and some decent speakers. Then save up for a new pair, make the new pair your fronts and move the others to the back. When I set up my system a while ago I did it piece by piece, and now I have a pretty good system.

The one thing I did was maybe didn't buy the best receiver out there, but spent the money on better speakers. Some of current speakers are over 10 years old now, and have seen a few amps. But speaker technology doesn't change as drastically as amps do.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Your post pretty much sums up what I figured but it's good to hear it from someone who clearly knows what they are talking about.

One of the two main reasons I decided to buy them despite knowing better was the fact that I can return within 30 days for a full refund, would not have done it if I was unable to return them. 2nd was the fact that 4 of the speakers were sold with stands. I really should have known better but I can easily return them and will do so.

One quick question:

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

HD audio (since you have an HD tv, you want that)

Why do I want HD audio going to my tv if I intend to send the audio to the surround sound system?

So starting again....

I'll take a look for that receiver you mentioned but failing that, any other recommendations?

For speakers, I have some older tower speakers that I can use again until I get more. When I do get some new ones, what am I looking for in that department? I like the looks of those taller, slender ones. Are those just for show or are there any decent ones out there? Are subs expensive?

**edit**
Forgot to ask one big question, how do you guys run the sound and pic? I want to run a 360, DVD player (eventually Blue Ray) and my Shaw HD box (No HDMI on it). All also have optical sound.

With my current reciever, I have 3 HDMI in and one out. I send the signal from the 360 and DVD player out to the reciever via HDMI and optical sound for both. Is this the way you would do it with a real reciever? Basically, does a higher end reciever handle both the sound and picture for you?

[3 Justin 3]

Most receivers do audio and video. Mine does anyway. HD Audio is surround sound. It has nothing to do with the picture, it just gives better sound. I don't have my blu-ray (PS3) hooked up yet because I only have 1 HDMI cable and not 2, but I can assure it will sound better.

Subs are expensive, for good ones anyway. Well for a good one it could cost like $600, but you could get a decent for around $400 probably less though if you look around. You want one that is plugged into a wall outlet, a powered one, I personally like ones with the speaker facing the floor, so you get the rumble.

The slender "tallboy" speakers you see with HTiB are probably not that good. I have no experience with them but I don't know how they could fit a Tweeder, and the other 2 (I forgot right now what they are called). But with the bigger ones (mine are about 8 inches across, my uncles are nearly 2 feet across!!), you will get bigger tweeder size, bigger woofer, everything will be better.

For connections, this is how I have mine hooked up.
-Xbox 360 hooked up to the receiver with Component cord
-Cable hooked up with RCA cable
-PS3 hooked up with HDMI

Then HDMI out. Then I select HDMI on my tv, and just choose what to use (Xbox, PS3, etc) with the receiver.

Just read the manual if you get one, I read it, and it helped. Took like 3 hours to set up but I did it.

[mrdeeds]

Be sure that you purchase a receiver that is not just a pass-through which means it will process the HDMI video signal, but not audio. In this case you will need optical or coaxial connections from the source to the receiver.

I would have preferred being able to switch the both audio and video signals through HDMI alone that way I could have both my HD PVR and 360 connected by HDMI. Currently I have the PVR connected by HDMI and coaxial digital audio and the 360 with component and digital optical audio.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Most receivers do audio and video. Mine does anyway. HD Audio is surround sound. It has nothing to do with the picture, it just gives better sound. I don't have my blu-ray (PS3) hooked up yet because I only have 1 HDMI cable and not 2, but I can assure it will sound better.

Subs are expensive, for good ones anyway. Well for a good one it could cost like $600, but you could get a decent for around $400 probably less though if you look around. You want one that is plugged into a wall outlet, a powered one, I personally like ones with the speaker facing the floor, so you get the rumble.

The slender "tallboy" speakers you see with HTiB are probably not that good. I have no experience with them but I don't know how they could fit a Tweeder, and the other 2 (I forgot right now what they are called). But with the bigger ones (mine are about 8 inches across, my uncles are nearly 2 feet across!!), you will get bigger tweeder size, bigger woofer, everything will be better.

For connections, this is how I have mine hooked up.
-Xbox 360 hooked up to the receiver with Component cord
-Cable hooked up with RCA cable
-PS3 hooked up with HDMI

Then HDMI out. Then I select HDMI on my tv, and just choose what to use (Xbox, PS3, etc) with the receiver.

Just read the manual if you get one, I read it, and it helped. Took like 3 hours to set up but I did it.

Forgive me as I don't know a whole lot about receivers with hdmi. Are you saying you just plug all your HDMI devices into your receiver and then have a single HDMI out to your tv?

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Russic

Forgive me as I don't know a whole lot about receivers with hdmi. Are you saying you just plug all your HDMI devices into your receiver and then have a single HDMI out to your tv?

That's the way I'm doing it with mine. Otherwise you have a crapload of cables for carrying sound and picture seperatley to their respective devices.

[mykalberta]

Alot of people will jump my a$$ for this but...

I have a Bose Acoustimass 11 connected to a Pioneer Reciever connected to a Samsung 42" Plasma TV.

I like the look of the Bose system, it sounds great, it was expensive but the look of the speakers and small footprint makes it right for me. Of course its not the loudest I could have got for the price buit for me, looks play a large importance.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I got a HTiB (Onkyo HT-S4100) for about $200 and it's been pretty good. The speakers aren't huge but the subwoofer gives off more then enough bass.

It doesn't have any HDMI inputs but I don't care. I doubt that there's a significant difference in HD sound over standard 5.1 when watching movies on entry level equipment.

[bomber317]

ok, for a $500 budget, I would recommend the following setup.

A receiver, 2 front mains and a center speaker. You can add surrounds later, but to be honest, the surrounds aren't as crucial and with a lower budget, you'd have to cut something.

From personal experience, I feel like I wasted money on my surrounds.

If you get a receiver for about $200-300, it should have HDMI switching and video up-conversion. What that means is, you can plug all of your video sources into the receiver and have one HDMI cable going out to your TV. This will work for video sources that aren't HDMI, for example Component video and even RCA because the receiver will "upcovert" it to the HDMI cable. (it won't look better, it just moves the signal over)

Onkyo has a few models for around that price. TXR606, TXR506 i believe. I own a TXR605. I think some of the cheaper harmon kardons do the job well, but I've never had any experience with them. (http://www.onkyo.ca/model.cfm?m=TX-S...s=Receiver&p=i)

For speakers, have a look around. My preference are for Paradigms (http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/...1-2-2.paradigm), they're a canadian company that makes awesome speakers for their price. But they may be a little out of your range. I think for the cheapest fronts and center it's $400ish. So if you get a $200-300 receiver, you'd be 100-200 over.

Oh and don't get fooled by the expensive cables, just get the cheap ones. They do the job. Speaker wire from Home Depot I found to be cheap and rugged. $20 HDMI cables do the trick, and if you're really cheap, get the mono-price ones online.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Lots of good stuff said so far in this thread... random stuff:

- you can buy an HDMI switcher that allows you to switch between multiple sources through HDMI if you don't have enough inputs on your TV

- I agree - go with the receiver and speaker setup

- lots of good advice/experts on http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/ who can give you some guidelines and also provide reviews on various equipment

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

**edit**
Forgot to ask one big question, how do you guys run the sound and pic? I want to run a 360, DVD player (eventually Blue Ray) and my Shaw HD box (No HDMI on it). All also have optical sound.

With my current reciever, I have 3 HDMI in and one out. I send the signal from the 360 and DVD player out to the reciever via HDMI and optical sound for both. Is this the way you would do it with a real reciever? Basically, does a higher end reciever handle both the sound and picture for you?

HDMI carries both video and audio signals. My current setup is the following

Xbox360 - HDMI cable to receiver
Shaw HD Box - HDMI cable to receiver
DVD Player - HDMI cable to receiver
Wii - Component cable to receiver, RCA audio cable to receiver

Receiver - HDMI cable to the TV

If your receiver does HDMI, it should process the audio and pass through the video. Depending on the receiver and the source (ie: some high end blu-ray players) the receiver may not process the audio because it doesn't recognize the codec. But for an Xbox and Shaw HD box, it should just work.

You may also need to associate the appropriate audio source on the receiver. (ie: HDMI audio for video source 1 or whatever)

Not sure if that made sense.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by bomber317

HDMI carries both video and audio signals. My current setup is the following

Xbox360 - HDMI cable to receiver
Shaw HD Box - HDMI cable to receiver
DVD Player - HDMI cable to receiver
Wii - Component cable to receiver, RCA audio cable to receiver

Receiver - HDMI cable to the TV

If your receiver does HDMI, it should process the audio and pass through the video. Depending on the receiver and the source (ie: some high end blu-ray players) the receiver may not process the audio because it doesn't recognize the codec. But for an Xbox and Shaw HD box, it should just work.

You may also need to associate the appropriate audio source on the receiver. (ie: HDMI audio for video source 1 or whatever)

Not sure if that made sense.

I think it does as I was about to ask that question. In short, if I HDMI my 360 for an example to my reciever but also want the optical sound out on my 360, it wont automatically use the optical sound over the HDMI, I have to specify that in a setup menu? Optical sound would be superior to HDMI, would it not? I assumed that the reciever would automatically pickup on the optical sound and use that over the HDMI sound.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I think it does as I was about to ask that question. In short, if I HDMI my 360 for an example to my reciever but also want the optical sound out on my 360, it wont automatically use the optical sound over the HDMI, I have to specify that in a setup menu? Optical sound would be superior to HDMI, would it not? I assumed that the reciever would automatically pickup on the optical sound and use that over the HDMI sound.

HDMI is optimal for both audio and video. You might as well use it whenever possible.

[ken0042]

Just to add to this- with all the talk about HDMI switching I still prefer to have seperate HDMI to the TV, and then optical cable from the source to the receiver.

There are times when I'm playing the Wii while the g/f is on the phone, so minimal valume from the TV is fine. Also if I'm watching the news or a documentary I really don't need high end sound that I get from the home theatre.

So it is important to decide which way you would rather hook things up. Also along the same lines if you can save some money by getting a receiver that doesn't have HDMI switching, you can use that money to buy better speakers.

And for cheap cables, check out monoprice.com or sometimes Superstore had HDMI cables for cheap. Last one I bought there was $7 and included an optical cable.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

That's the way I'm doing it with mine. Otherwise you have a crapload of cables for carrying sound and picture seperatley to their respective devices.

Thank you very much! I have 2 HDMI inputs on my tv and I now have 3 devices with HDMI. I have one of them using component cables which works fine but creates a hell of a mess with cables running all over the place. This would be an excellent solution.

[RW99]

Add another vote not buying a HTiB. I bought a Samsung one about a year ago and I've regretted it. I would highly recommend saving for a little while longer and get something else. I've been looking at these: http://www.onkyo.ca/prod_class.cfm?class=Systems It allows you to do some upgrading on the speakers later.

[OBCT]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I think it does as I was about to ask that question. In short, if I HDMI my 360 for an example to my reciever but also want the optical sound out on my 360, it wont automatically use the optical sound over the HDMI, I have to specify that in a setup menu? Optical sound would be superior to HDMI, would it not? I assumed that the reciever would automatically pickup on the optical sound and use that over the HDMI sound.

Audio over optical or digital coax is not superior to audio over HDMI. As long as your receiver can process audio over HDMI, I would definitely stick to using a single HDMI cable for everything whenever possible.

There are even specialized high-resolution and "HD audio" formats that are made available by HDMI and not optical/coax (ie. DSD via SACD; DTS-HD MA; TrueHD). Your system may or may not be capable of these formats apart from the connectors used.


EDIT: Too slow. nevermind.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Cant thank you guys enough for your input, greatly appreciated. I think I have learned enough to make an informed descion. Like I said, I am taking it back for sure. Looked at Bestbuy and found a number of 7.1 recievers with tons of inputs and capable of the HD sound for ~$500. I'm going to go that route and re-use old speakers for the front and purchase new ones in the near future.